Zink caught?
There was a story in the Snooze the other day that said the graffiti vandal who was writing Zink on buildings and businesses was caught red-handed.
He's a 20-year-old? Geez, and here I was blaming teens.
Okay, he has to be prosecuted under the law, but if that wasn't a consideration, what do you think suitable punishment would be?
How about he does some jail time and also is sentenced to go around to schools telling kids how stupid he is?
BTW, congrats to those in Monroe who were sharp-eyed enough to spot this critter and blow the whistle. That's community spirit personified.
He's a 20-year-old? Geez, and here I was blaming teens.
Okay, he has to be prosecuted under the law, but if that wasn't a consideration, what do you think suitable punishment would be?
How about he does some jail time and also is sentenced to go around to schools telling kids how stupid he is?
BTW, congrats to those in Monroe who were sharp-eyed enough to spot this critter and blow the whistle. That's community spirit personified.
posted by The Observer at 7/27/2007 11:45:00 PM
106 Comments:
h, and for want of food and raiment; I confess that it was no disadvantage to be passed through the hands of so many families, as the only source of information that I had to enlighten my mind, consisted in what I could see and hear from others. Slaves were not allowed books, pen, ink, nor paper, to improve their minds. But it seems to me now, that I was particularly observing, and apt to retain what came under my observation. But more especially, all that I heard about liberty and freedom to the slaves, I never forgot. Among other good trades I learned the art of running away to perfection. I made a regular business of it, and never gave it up, until I had broken the bands of slavery,
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and landed myself safely in Canada, where I was regarded as a man, and not as a thing.
The first time in my life that I ran away, was for ill treatment, in 1825. I was living with a Mr. Vires, in the village of Newcastle. His wife was a very cross woman. She was every day flogging me, boxing, pulling my ears, and scolding, so that I dreaded to enter the room where she was. This first started me to running away from them. I was often gone several days before I was caught. They would abuse me for going off, but it did no good. The next time they flogged me, I was off again; but after awhile they got sick of their bargain, and returned me back into the hands of my owners. By this time Mr. White had married his second wife. She was what I call a tyrant. I lived with her several months, but she kept me almost half of my time in the woods, running from under the bloody lash. While I was at home she kept me all the time rubbing furniture, washing, scrubbing the floors; and when I was not doing this, she would often seat herself in a large rocking chair, with two pillows about her, and would make me rock her, and keep off the flies. She was too lazy to scratch her own head, and would often make me scratch and comb it for her. She would at other times lie on her bed, in warm weather, and make me fan her while she slept, scratch and rub her feet; but after awhile she got sick of me, and preferred a maiden servant to do such business. I was then hired out again; but by this time I had become much better skilled in running away, and would
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make calculation to avoid detection, by taking with me a bridle. If any body should see me in the woods, as they have, and asked "what are you doing here sir? you are a runaway?" -- I said, "no, sir, I am looking for our old mare;" at other times, "looking for our cows." For such excuses I was let pass. In fact, the only weapon of self defence that I could use successfully, was that of deception. It is useless for a poor helpless slave, to resist a white man in a slaveholding State. Public opinion and the law is against him; and resistance in many cases is death to the slave, while the law declares, that he shall submit or die.
The circumstances in which I was then placed, gave me a longing desire to be free. It kindled a fire of liberty within my breast which has never yet been quenched. This seemed to be a part of my nature; it was first revealed to me by the inevitable laws of nature's God. I could see that the All-wise Creator, had made man a free, moral, intelligent and accountable being; capable of knowing good and evil. And I believed then, as I believe now, that every man has a right to wages for his labor; a right to his own wife and children; a right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness; and a right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. But here, in the light of these truths, I was a slave, a prisoner for life; I could possess nothing, nor acquire anything but what must belong to my keeper. No one can imagine my feelings in my reflecting moments, but he who has himself been a slave. Oh! I have often wept over my con- dition, while sauntering through the forest, to escape cruel punishment.
"No arm to protect me from tyrants aggression;
No parents to cheer me when laden with grief.
Man may picture the bounds of the rocks and the rivers,
The hills and the valleys, the lakes and the ocean,
But the horrors of slavery, he never can trace."
The term slave to this day sounds with terror to my soul, -- a word too obnoxious to speak -- a system too intolerable to be endured. I know this from long and sad experience. I now feel as if I had just been aroused from sleep, and looking back with quickened perception at the state of torment from whence I fled. I was there held and claimed as a slave; as such I was subjected to the will and power of my keeper, in all respects whatsoever. That the slave is a human being, no one can deny. It is his lot to be exposed in common with other men, to the calamities of sickness, death, and the misfortunes incident to life. But unlike other men, he is denied the consolation of struggling against external difficulties, such as destroy the life, liberty, and happiness of himself and family. A slave may be bought and sold in the market like an ox. He is liable to be sold off to a distant land from his family. He is bound in chains hand and foot; and his sufferings are aggravated a hundred fold, by the terrible thought, that he is not allowed to struggle against misfortune, corporeal punishment, insults and outrages committed upon himself and family; and he is not allowed to help himself, to resist or escape the blow, which he sees impending over him.
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This idea of utter helplessness, in perpetual bondage, is the more distressing, as there is no period even with the remotest generation when it shall terminate.
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13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
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Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
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Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
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Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
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Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
13 July, 2007
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 1:33 PM on Jul 12, 2007
h, and for want of food and raiment; I confess that it was no disadvantage to be passed through the hands of so many families, as the only source of information that I had to enlighten my mind, consisted in what I could see and hear from others. Slaves were not allowed books, pen, ink, nor paper, to improve their minds. But it seems to me now, that I was particularly observing, and apt to retain what came under my observation. But more especially, all that I heard about liberty and freedom to the slaves, I never forgot. Among other good trades I learned the art of running away to perfection. I made a regular business of it, and never gave it up, until I had broken the bands of slavery,
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and landed myself safely in Canada, where I was regarded as a man, and not as a thing.
The first time in my life that I ran away, was for ill treatment, in 1825. I was living with a Mr. Vires, in the village of Newcastle. His wife was a very cross woman. She was every day flogging me, boxing, pulling my ears, and scolding, so that I dreaded to enter the room where she was. This first started me to running away from them. I was often gone several days before I was caught. They would abuse me for going off, but it did no good. The next time they flogged me, I was off again; but after awhile they got sick of their bargain, and returned me back into the hands of my owners. By this time Mr. White had married his second wife. She was what I call a tyrant. I lived with her several months, but she kept me almost half of my time in the woods, running from under the bloody lash. While I was at home she kept me all the time rubbing furniture, washing, scrubbing the floors; and when I was not doing this, she would often seat herself in a large rocking chair, with two pillows about her, and would make me rock her, and keep off the flies. She was too lazy to scratch her own head, and would often make me scratch and comb it for her. She would at other times lie on her bed, in warm weather, and make me fan her while she slept, scratch and rub her feet; but after awhile she got sick of me, and preferred a maiden servant to do such business. I was then hired out again; but by this time I had become much better skilled in running away, and would
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make calculation to avoid detection, by taking with me a bridle. If any body should see me in the woods, as they have, and asked "what are you doing here sir? you are a runaway?" -- I said, "no, sir, I am looking for our old mare;" at other times, "looking for our cows." For such excuses I was let pass. In fact, the only weapon of self defence that I could use successfully, was that of deception. It is useless for a poor helpless slave, to resist a white man in a slaveholding State. Public opinion and the law is against him; and resistance in many cases is death to the slave, while the law declares, that he shall submit or die.
The circumstances in which I was then placed, gave me a longing desire to be free. It kindled a fire of liberty within my breast which has never yet been quenched. This seemed to be a part of my nature; it was first revealed to me by the inevitable laws of nature's God. I could see that the All-wise Creator, had made man a free, moral, intelligent and accountable being; capable of knowing good and evil. And I believed then, as I believe now, that every man has a right to wages for his labor; a right to his own wife and children; a right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness; and a right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. But here, in the light of these truths, I was a slave, a prisoner for life; I could possess nothing, nor acquire anything but what must belong to my keeper. No one can imagine my feelings in my reflecting moments, but he who has himself been a slave. Oh! I have often wept over my con- dition, while sauntering through the forest, to escape cruel punishment.
"No arm to protect me from tyrants aggression;
No parents to cheer me when laden with grief.
Man may picture the bounds of the rocks and the rivers,
The hills and the valleys, the lakes and the ocean,
But the horrors of slavery, he never can trace."
The term slave to this day sounds with terror to my soul, -- a word too obnoxious to speak -- a system too intolerable to be endured. I know this from long and sad experience. I now feel as if I had just been aroused from sleep, and looking back with quickened perception at the state of torment from whence I fled. I was there held and claimed as a slave; as such I was subjected to the will and power of my keeper, in all respects whatsoever. That the slave is a human being, no one can deny. It is his lot to be exposed in common with other men, to the calamities of sickness, death, and the misfortunes incident to life. But unlike other men, he is denied the consolation of struggling against external difficulties, such as destroy the life, liberty, and happiness of himself and family. A slave may be bought and sold in the market like an ox. He is liable to be sold off to a distant land from his family. He is bound in chains hand and foot; and his sufferings are aggravated a hundred fold, by the terrible thought, that he is not allowed to struggle against misfortune, corporeal punishment, insults and outrages committed upon himself and family; and he is not allowed to help himself, to resist or escape the blow, which he sees impending over him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-019-
This idea of utter helplessness, in perpetual bondage, is the more distressing, as there is no period even with the remotest generation when it shall terminate.
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-021-
13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
13 July, 2007
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 1:33 PM on Jul 12, 2007
h, and for want of food and raiment; I confess that it was no disadvantage to be passed through the hands of so many families, as the only source of information that I had to enlighten my mind, consisted in what I could see and hear from others. Slaves were not allowed books, pen, ink, nor paper, to improve their minds. But it seems to me now, that I was particularly observing, and apt to retain what came under my observation. But more especially, all that I heard about liberty and freedom to the slaves, I never forgot. Among other good trades I learned the art of running away to perfection. I made a regular business of it, and never gave it up, until I had broken the bands of slavery,
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and landed myself safely in Canada, where I was regarded as a man, and not as a thing.
The first time in my life that I ran away, was for ill treatment, in 1825. I was living with a Mr. Vires, in the village of Newcastle. His wife was a very cross woman. She was every day flogging me, boxing, pulling my ears, and scolding, so that I dreaded to enter the room where she was. This first started me to running away from them. I was often gone several days before I was caught. They would abuse me for going off, but it did no good. The next time they flogged me, I was off again; but after awhile they got sick of their bargain, and returned me back into the hands of my owners. By this time Mr. White had married his second wife. She was what I call a tyrant. I lived with her several months, but she kept me almost half of my time in the woods, running from under the bloody lash. While I was at home she kept me all the time rubbing furniture, washing, scrubbing the floors; and when I was not doing this, she would often seat herself in a large rocking chair, with two pillows about her, and would make me rock her, and keep off the flies. She was too lazy to scratch her own head, and would often make me scratch and comb it for her. She would at other times lie on her bed, in warm weather, and make me fan her while she slept, scratch and rub her feet; but after awhile she got sick of me, and preferred a maiden servant to do such business. I was then hired out again; but by this time I had become much better skilled in running away, and would
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make calculation to avoid detection, by taking with me a bridle. If any body should see me in the woods, as they have, and asked "what are you doing here sir? you are a runaway?" -- I said, "no, sir, I am looking for our old mare;" at other times, "looking for our cows." For such excuses I was let pass. In fact, the only weapon of self defence that I could use successfully, was that of deception. It is useless for a poor helpless slave, to resist a white man in a slaveholding State. Public opinion and the law is against him; and resistance in many cases is death to the slave, while the law declares, that he shall submit or die.
The circumstances in which I was then placed, gave me a longing desire to be free. It kindled a fire of liberty within my breast which has never yet been quenched. This seemed to be a part of my nature; it was first revealed to me by the inevitable laws of nature's God. I could see that the All-wise Creator, had made man a free, moral, intelligent and accountable being; capable of knowing good and evil. And I believed then, as I believe now, that every man has a right to wages for his labor; a right to his own wife and children; a right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness; and a right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. But here, in the light of these truths, I was a slave, a prisoner for life; I could possess nothing, nor acquire anything but what must belong to my keeper. No one can imagine my feelings in my reflecting moments, but he who has himself been a slave. Oh! I have often wept over my con- dition, while sauntering through the forest, to escape cruel punishment.
"No arm to protect me from tyrants aggression;
No parents to cheer me when laden with grief.
Man may picture the bounds of the rocks and the rivers,
The hills and the valleys, the lakes and the ocean,
But the horrors of slavery, he never can trace."
The term slave to this day sounds with terror to my soul, -- a word too obnoxious to speak -- a system too intolerable to be endured. I know this from long and sad experience. I now feel as if I had just been aroused from sleep, and looking back with quickened perception at the state of torment from whence I fled. I was there held and claimed as a slave; as such I was subjected to the will and power of my keeper, in all respects whatsoever. That the slave is a human being, no one can deny. It is his lot to be exposed in common with other men, to the calamities of sickness, death, and the misfortunes incident to life. But unlike other men, he is denied the consolation of struggling against external difficulties, such as destroy the life, liberty, and happiness of himself and family. A slave may be bought and sold in the market like an ox. He is liable to be sold off to a distant land from his family. He is bound in chains hand and foot; and his sufferings are aggravated a hundred fold, by the terrible thought, that he is not allowed to struggle against misfortune, corporeal punishment, insults and outrages committed upon himself and family; and he is not allowed to help himself, to resist or escape the blow, which he sees impending over him.
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This idea of utter helplessness, in perpetual bondage, is the more distressing, as there is no period even with the remotest generation when it shall terminate.
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13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
13 July, 2007
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 1:33 PM on Jul 12, 2007
Friday, July 27, 2007
Zink caught?
There was a story in the Snooze the other day that said the graffiti vandal who was writing Zink on buildings and businesses was caught red-handed.
He's a 20-year-old? Geez, and here I was blaming teens.
Okay, he has to be prosecuted under the law, but if that wasn't a consideration, what do you think suitable punishment would be?
How about he does some jail time and also is sentenced to go around to schools telling kids how stupid he is?
BTW, congrats to those in Monroe who were sharp-eyed enough to spot this critter and blow the whistle. That's community spirit personified.
posted by The Observer at 7/27/2007 11:45:00 PM 3 comments
Wednesday, July 25, 2007
Let's not pity Patterson
It's hard to resist weighing in on the Patterson free parking pass controversy.
Those who haven't been paying attention should know that John Martin, a Monroe city councilman, has suggested that Patterson, head of the county tourism bureau, should be granted a free parking pass for downtown because he's a busy guy and tries to bring tourism bucks to the neighborhood.
For what it's worth, I like Patterson. Would I give him a free parking pass? Heck no.
(This sounds like a Monopoly game space anyway).
Does John, who pays himself well, really need a pass? Can't he just park a few more feet away in the riverfront parking lot? He can't get his tickets validated for obvious reasons (the policy wasn't designed for downtown employees). If John can get a pass, I can think of dozens of other people who should, but won't embarrass them by naming them here.
What seems to be more important is that the city work out some system of ticketing that doesn't chase away first-time visitors to the city. Either have printed on the ticket itself that it can be validated at merchants or waive the fine for out-of-towners who bring the ticket to city hall within two hours of it being issued. This policy probably chases away as many tourists as Patterson brings in.
Martin might be bright most of the time, but what was he smoking this time?
BTW, I like McGeady's a lot better now than when Martin ran it.
posted by The Observer at 7/25/2007 11:28:00 AM 12 comments
Monday, July 23, 2007
A rising clamor
Some of the commenters on this blog have been calling for me to screen or censor the comments.
I can do this, but I don't want to.
But I will if I have to.
What is strange about this is that if I start to do that, the people who are forcing me to do it will no longer be able to comment.
What I can't figure out is what purpose they think they might be serving.
If they think posting long excerpts from the Old Testament or dissertations on communism (I actually found that quite interesting) somehow will corrupt the blog or discourage posters, they've already been proven wrong.
In the past, I've pleaded for commenters to keep their comments clean. Let's face it, a comment can be vile and evil, but still avoid language that might give some kid who stumbled upon it an education he doesn't really want or need. Not everyone has responded to that plea. So I'm considering making the move to bring the blog to a bit higher level.
Everybody in favor, say aye.
This might even take this blog back to how it all began -- with me making passing comments to the entertainment or irritation of a few who visited regularly.
A while back someone put a link to this site on another forum widely accessed by the general public. I thought that would be a bad move. It's been bad and good.
But I think the blog can better be a force for good if content now is screened by my good filter.
That means it will be bad for a lot of people.
But what it comes down to is that this blog really is mostly about me anyway. And if I start to censor, it really will be all about me.
So should I pull the trigger because of a few morons?
posted by The Observer at 7/23/2007 10:22:00 AM 12 comments
Thursday, July 19, 2007
A hint of things to come?
I see where a $21,000 grant has been approved to do more research on where the significant points of the River Raisin Battlefield might lie.
The work will look at areas outside some of the portions already studied.
That's significant in itself, but what might be more significant is that the grant was from the National Park Service.
Does that mean the chances are better that the site will eventually be declared a National Historic Park?
I hope so.
Even if it's not, doesn't the site look a lot better since that old paper plant was knocked down? That definitely was an improvement to the city's looks.
posted by The Observer at 7/19/2007 09:02:00 AM 21 comments
Thursday, July 12, 2007
Okay, so the city is twisted
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 7/12/2007 01:33:00 PM 68 comments
Sunday, July 08, 2007
Is city a little twisted?
One of the commenters to the previous post said that this blog kind of shows the slimy underbelly of a snake of a city.
He or she feels the blog is a poor reflection of the town.
Another commenter said I should "pull the plug" on the blog.
It's something I've been considering for some time partly because city elections are drawing near and things will get uglier.
This blog has become a mystery to me. It began and continues to be my ramblings, more or less.
I think some of the commenters remarks have been nothing short of brilliant.
Others are as coarse and common as they come.
What I can't figure out is why there's so much venom vented here.
I would guess anyone who even bothers to post remarks here cares somewhat about their community. But it's pretty apparent that it goes beyond that. There's a lot of hate and vindictiveness.
I continue to be amazed at the Compora-Smith dialogue. Why does this matter?
Councilwoman Compora was elected to city council just like everyone else on council. Making nasty remarks about her here won't determine whether she gets re-elected. How well she represents her constituents will determine whether she has a chance at re-election.
David Smith will probably continue to comment on city issues -- heck, he has his own Web site to vent on. Bashing Smith isn't going to make him go away and, he too will be judged by his constituency.
My guess is that Compora on council is just trying to irritate and embarrass fellow councilmembers who she has little regard for in hopes of seeing them get voted off the council.
My guess is what she says at council is only a small part of what she tells voters in her neighborhood.
My guess is that her performance on city council is being both jeered and cheered by different populations. If she doesn't get re-elected, she'll probably still have a lot to say at council meetings. If she does get re-elected, she'll have even more to say.
The same probably applies to Smith.
Obviously they have some personal animosities. SO WHAT!
If people who contribute to this blog really enjoy this nonproductive bashing, maybe someone should just start a blog of their own dedicated to that topic.
As far as I can tell, this weird feud isn't helping the city and, I agree, is probably hurting it.
Having said that, let see if I can turn the topic a little.
First, someone said John Patterson was wasting taxpayer dollars by having a laser show downtown. If the tourism bureau paid for it, it's not taxpayer dollars that paid for it, it's revenue from visitors to the area who use hotels and motels in the area. It's a fee attached to their room bill.
Second, I was wondering how people feel about holding the fireworks at the state park. I've heard some some people who were at the show that they liked it better at the fairgrounds because it was easy to get in and out and they didn't have to pay a park entrance fee.
Does anyone have strong feelings about this?
posted by The Observer at 7/08/2007 12:59:00 PM 59 comments
Monday, July 02, 2007
City study a little twisted?
I caught bits and pieces of that presentation on the city operational study.
Is it just me or did anyone think that the study had a little too much anti-union, pro-privatization spin?
It seemed like every 10th sentence out of the consultant's mouth mentioned stuff about conciliatory attitudes and outsourcing. While those tactics could help, why couldn't he just have highlighted areas of high cost and inefficiency and let the the city figure out what alternatives it could explore? Maybe it's just me.
Anybody else get these strange vibes?
posted by The Observer at 7/02/2007 01:35:00 PM 34 comments
About Me
Name: The Observer
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Previous Posts
Zink caught?
Let's not pity Patterson
A rising clamor
A hint of things to come?
Okay, so the city is twisted
Is city a little twisted?
City study a little twisted?
A banner day in Monroe
Graffiti again
I'm all for July 4, but ...
Archives
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07/01/2007 - 08/01/2007
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
Anonymous said...
Mr. Rick Floraday,
Have you had enough yet?
Would you care to let this site be a constructive discussion among adults?
It is good to know you are not going to run for office again. I had heard this from other sources, but its nice to hear it directly.
If you can let your obsession for bashing Paisley, Mayor Al, David Smith, and other concerned citizens go, perhaps we can once again have interesting and informative discussions. They are not the source of all problems and evil in Monroe. Your friends are not the solution to the problems and evil in Monroe.
I will say I am not David Smith, and will say he is not behind the fine reading that has been posted on this site for the edification of readers the last two days.
I feel that reading fine historical documents, the Bible, Koran, and Book of Mormon, and classic novels along with some interesting articles is more productive than what you have been purveying on this blog.
Hate and spewing venom have no place in public discussion.
Personally I have many friends whom I disagree with. We have interesting and informative discussions about many topics. At the end we don’t always agree, but we leave friends with mutual respect.
This is the kind of relationship I have with John Iacoangelli. He is a man I don’t always agree with, but I respect him immensely. I think the same is true of him about me.
Why can’t you take a cue from your friend and behave in the same way?
Personal attacks, lies, and character assassination have no place in public discussions.
Please learn how to conduct yourself in a professional manner on this blog and in public.
If not, I will commit to your readers to continue to provide a steady diet of suitable alternative reading material for their edification.
Unfortunately I am afraid to sign my name given the childish behavior that has went on in this community by a very few parties including yourself the last few years.
I hope I can sign my name without fear in the future. In the meantime I am not David Smith.
Sincerely,
XXXXX.
13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Quit denying that you're David Smith. Why don't you stop blaming others for your sick postings on this blog. Blame everybody but yourself,everybody knows it's you. Delusional jackass!
Maybe should ask John Iocoangeli if he considers YOU a friend, bet you'd be surprised to hear not many people would WANT you as their friend. What a shock! Nice guy like you? Only the 3C will take you. Like attracts like.
You think you have respect from other people? What's to respect? Revulsion would be more like it.
Ever hear of what goes around comes around in life?
Perhaps you have totaled up so much "respect" that you will be amply rewarded in kind.
In the meantime you're fooling no one.
13 July, 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PREFACE TO 1888 ENGLISH EDITION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Manifesto was published as the platform of the Communist League, a working men's association, first exclusively German, later on international, and under the political conditions of the Continent before 1848, unavoidably a secret society. At a Congress of the League, held in November 1847, Marx and Engels were commissioned to prepare a complete theoretical and practical party programme. Drawn up in German, in January 1848, the manuscript was sent to the printer in London a few weeks before the French Revolution of February 24. A French translation was brought out in Paris shortly before the insurrection of June 1848. The first English translation, by Miss Helen Macfarlane, appeared in George Julian Harney's _Red Republican_, London, 1850. A Danish and a Polish edition had also been published.
The defeat of the Parisian insurrection of June 1848 -- the first great battle between proletariat and bourgeoisie -- drove again into the background, for a time, the social and political aspirations of the European working class. Thenceforth, the struggle for supremacy was, again, as it had been before the Revolution of February, solely between different sections of the propertied class; the working class was reduced to a fight for political elbow-room, and to the position of extreme wing of the middle-class Radicals. Wherever independent proletarian movements continued to show signs of life, they were ruthlessly hunted down. Thus the Prussian police hunted out the Central Board of the Communist League, then located in Cologne. The members were arrested and, after eighteen months' imprisonment, they were tried in October 1852. This selebrated "Cologne Communist Trial" lasted from October 4 till November 12; seven of the prisoners were sentenced to terms of imprisonment in a fortress, varying from three to six years. Immediately after the sentence, the League was formlly dissolved by the remaining members. As to the Manifesto, it seemed henceforth doomed to oblivion.
When the European workers had recovered sufficient strength for another attack on the ruling classes, the International Working Men's Association sprang up. But this association, formed with the express aim of welding into one body the whole militant proletariat of Europe and America, could not at once proclaim the principles laid down in the Manifesto. The International was bound to have a programme broad enough to be acceptable to the English trade unions, to the followers of Proudhon in France, Belgium, Italy, and Spain, and to the Lassalleans in Germany.
[ENGEL'S FOOTNOTE: Lassalle personally, to us, always acknowledged himself to be a disciple of Marx, and, as such, stood on the ground of the Manifesto. But in his first public agitation, 1862-1864, he did not go beyond demanding co-operative worhsops supported by state credit.]
Marx, who drew up this programme to the satisfaction of all parties, entirely trusted to the intellectual development of the working class, which was sure to result from combined action and mutual discussion. The very events and vicissitudes in the struggle against capital, the defeats even more than the victories, could not help bringing home to men's minds the insufficiency of their various favorite nostrums, and preparing the way for a more complete insight into the true conditions for working-class emancipation. And Marx was right. The International, on its breaking in 1874, left the workers quite different men from what it found them in 1864. Proudhonism in France, Lassalleanism in Germany, were dying out, and even the conservative English trade unions, though most of them had long since severed their connection with the International, were gradually advancing towards that point at which, last year at Swansea, their president could say in their name: "Continental socialism has lost its terror for us." In fact, the principles of the Manifesto had made considerable headway among the working men of all countries.
The Manifesto itself came thus to the front again. Since 1850, the German text had been reprinted several times in Switzerland, England, and America. In 1872, it was translated into English in New York, where the translation was published in _Woorhull and Claflin's Weekly_. From this English version, a French one was made in _Le Socialiste_ of New York. Since then, at least two more English translations, moer or less mutilated, have been brought out in America, and one of them has been reprinted in England. The first Russian translation, made by Bakunin, was published at Herzen's Kolokol office in Geneva, about 1863; a second one, by the heroic Vera Zasulich, also in Geneva, in 1882. A new Danish edition is to be found in _Socialdemokratisk Bibliothek_, Copenhagen, 1885; a fresh French translation in _Le Socialiste_, Paris, 1886. From this latter, a Spanish version was prepared and published in Madrid, 1886. The German reprints are not to be counted; there have been twelve altogether at the least. An Armenian translation, which was to be published in Constantinople some months ago, did not see the light, I am told, because the publisher was afraid of bringing out a book with the name of Marx on it, while the translator declined to call it his own production. Of further translations into other languages I have heard but had not seen. Thus the history of the Manifesto reflects the history of the modern working-class movement; at present, it is doubtless the most wide spread, the most international production of all socialist literature, the common platform acknowledged by millions of working men from Siberia to California.
Yet, when it was written, we could not have called it a _socialist_ manifesto. By Socialists, in 1847, were understood, on the one hand the adherents of the various Utopian systems: Owenites in England, Fourierists in France, both of them already reduced to the position of mere sects, and gradually dying out; on the other hand, the most multifarious social quacks who, by all manner of tinkering, professed to redress, without any danger to capital and profit, all sorts of social grievances, in both cases men outside the working-class movement, and looking rather to the "educated" classes for support. Whatever portion of the working class had become convinced of the insufficiency of mere political revolutions, and had proclaimed the necessity of total social change, called itself Communist. It was a crude, rough-hewn, purely instinctive sort of communism; still, it touched the cardinal point and was powerful enough amongst the working class to produce the Utopian communism of Cabet in France, and of Weitling
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PREFACE TO 1888 ENGLISH EDITION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Manifesto was published as the platform of the Communist League, a working men's association, first exclusively German, later on international, and under the political conditions of the Continent before 1848, unavoidably a secret society. At a Congress of the League, held in November 1847, Marx and Engels were commissioned to prepare a complete theoretical and practical party programme. Drawn up in German, in January 1848, the manuscript was sent to the printer in London a few weeks before the French Revolution of February 24. A French translation was brought out in Paris shortly before the insurrection of June 1848. The first English translation, by Miss Helen Macfarlane, appeared in George Julian Harney's _Red Republican_, London, 1850. A Danish and a Polish edition had also been published.
The defeat of the Parisian insurrection of June 1848 -- the first great battle between proletariat and bourgeoisie -- drove again into the background, for a time, the social and political aspirations of the European working class. Thenceforth, the struggle for supremacy was, again, as it had been before the Revolution of February, solely between different sections of the propertied class; the working class was reduced to a fight for political elbow-room, and to the position of extreme wing of the middle-class Radicals. Wherever independent proletarian movements continued to show signs of life, they were ruthlessly hunted down. Thus the Prussian police hunted out the Central Board of the Communist League, then located in Cologne. The members were arrested and, after eighteen months' imprisonment, they were tried in October 1852. This selebrated "Cologne Communist Trial" lasted from October 4 till November 12; seven of the prisoners were sentenced to terms of imprisonment in a fortress, varying from three to six years. Immediately after the sentence, the League was formlly dissolved by the remaining members. As to the Manifesto, it seemed henceforth doomed to oblivion.
When the European workers had recovered sufficient strength for another attack on the ruling classes, the International Working Men's Association sprang up. But this association, formed with the express aim of welding into one body the whole militant proletariat of Europe and America, could not at once proclaim the principles laid down in the Manifesto. The International was bound to have a programme broad enough to be acceptable to the English trade unions, to the followers of Proudhon in France, Belgium, Italy, and Spain, and to the Lassalleans in Germany.
[ENGEL'S FOOTNOTE: Lassalle personally, to us, always acknowledged himself to be a disciple of Marx, and, as such, stood on the ground of the Manifesto. But in his first public agitation, 1862-1864, he did not go beyond demanding co-operative worhsops supported by state credit.]
Marx, who drew up this programme to the satisfaction of all parties, entirely trusted to the intellectual development of the working class, which was sure to result from combined action and mutual discussion. The very events and vicissitudes in the struggle against capital, the defeats even more than the victories, could not help bringing home to men's minds the insufficiency of their various favorite nostrums, and preparing the way for a more complete insight into the true conditions for working-class emancipation. And Marx was right. The International, on its breaking in 1874, left the workers quite different men from what it found them in 1864. Proudhonism in France, Lassalleanism in Germany, were dying out, and even the conservative English trade unions, though most of them had long since severed their connection with the International, were gradually advancing towards that point at which, last year at Swansea, their president could say in their name: "Continental socialism has lost its terror for us." In fact, the principles of the Manifesto had made considerable headway among the working men of all countries.
The Manifesto itself came thus to the front again. Since 1850, the German text had been reprinted several times in Switzerland, England, and America. In 1872, it was translated into English in New York, where the translation was published in _Woorhull and Claflin's Weekly_. From this English version, a French one was made in _Le Socialiste_ of New York. Since then, at least two more English translations, moer or less mutilated, have been brought out in America, and one of them has been reprinted in England. The first Russian translation, made by Bakunin, was published at Herzen's Kolokol office in Geneva, about 1863; a second one, by the heroic Vera Zasulich, also in Geneva, in 1882. A new Danish edition is to be found in _Socialdemokratisk Bibliothek_, Copenhagen, 1885; a fresh French translation in _Le Socialiste_, Paris, 1886. From this latter, a Spanish version was prepared and published in Madrid, 1886. The German reprints are not to be counted; there have been twelve altogether at the least. An Armenian translation, which was to be published in Constantinople some months ago, did not see the light, I am told, because the publisher was afraid of bringing out a book with the name of Marx on it, while the translator declined to call it his own production. Of further translations into other languages I have heard but had not seen. Thus the history of the Manifesto reflects the history of the modern working-class movement; at present, it is doubtless the most wide spread, the most international production of all socialist literature, the common platform acknowledged by millions of working men from Siberia to California.
Yet, when it was written, we could not have called it a _socialist_ manifesto. By Socialists, in 1847, were understood, on the one hand the adherents of the various Utopian systems: Owenites in England, Fourierists in France, both of them already reduced to the position of mere sects, and gradually dying out; on the other hand, the most multifarious social quacks who, by all manner of tinkering, professed to redress, without any danger to capital and profit, all sorts of social grievances, in both cases men outside the working-class movement, and looking rather to the "educated" classes for support. Whatever portion of the working class had become convinced of the insufficiency of mere political revolutions, and had proclaimed the necessity of total social change, called itself Communist. It was a crude, rough-hewn, purely instinctive sort of communism; still, it touched the cardinal point and was powerful enough amongst the working class to produce the Utopian communism of Cabet in France, and of Weitling
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughterThe young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. , the beautiful Helene.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene.
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene.
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughThe young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. ter, the beautiful Helene.
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughThe young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. ter, the beautiful Helene.
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a councilcomments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
16 July, 2007
Leave your comment
The historical Society just does not smell right. I maintain my membership only in the hope that they decide to become an open society. The leaders have made it plain that money talks and BS walks!
The papermill was fine when it was in operation. The old office building would make a fine place for an exhibit on our paper making past. The NYC Bridge to perhaps be abandoned is best removed because the approaches impound ice during the spring melt. It is a cookie cutter design and of no special significance except its design reflected the price of cheap Bessemer steel at the time it was built.
The one bridge that is unusual is just downstream form the Winchester Street Bridge. It is a standard Baltimore truss except the lower cord is of eye-bar construction. There are four on the upstream side and six on the bottom probably to handle lateral loading in icing events.
Thanks Paper Boy and Alacajun for nice comments.
Anonymous, you may have a good point. On my web sites, I must pay for the domain, web space and defend the truth posted therein. If in error as was the case of Jeff Green’s choice of Sawyer House shingles, the only decent thing to do is to apologize and post his viewpoint and his reasons for a correct action.
As it turns out he was right and I was wrong. I for one would rather find out someone I thought in error was correct because it increases my faith in that person and is a humbling experience for me. Since none of us can be correct all of the time at least we can use our mistakes as a way to learn.
This forum has zero control and is a wide open shootout for anyone and everyone wishing to use or misuse it.
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
16 July, 2007
Leave your comment
The historical Society just does not smell right. I maintain my membership only in the hope that they decide to become an open society. The leaders have made it plain that money talks and BS walks!
The papermill was fine when it was in operation. The old office building would make a fine place for an exhibit on our paper making past. The NYC Bridge to perhaps be abandoned is best removed because the approaches impound ice during the spring melt. It is a cookie cutter design and of no special significance except its design reflected the price of cheap Bessemer steel at the time it was built.
The one bridge that is unusual is just downstream form the Winchester Street Bridge. It is a standard Baltimore truss except the lower cord is of eye-bar construction. There are four on the upstream side and six on the bottom probably to handle lateral loading in icing events.
Thanks Paper Boy and Alacajun for nice comments.
Anonymous, you may have a good point. On my web sites, I must pay for the domain, web space and defend the truth posted therein. If in error as was the case of Jeff Green’s choice of Sawyer House shingles, the only decent thing to do is to apologize and post his viewpoint and his reasons for a correct action.
As it turns out he was right and I was wrong. I for one would rather find out someone I thought in error was correct because it increases my faith in that person and is a humbling experience for me. Since none of us can be correct all of the time at least we can use our mistakes as a way to learn.
This forum has zero control and is a wide open shootout for anyone and everyone wishing to use or misuse it.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
16 July, 2007
Leave your comment
The historical Society just does not smell right. I maintain my membership only in the hope that they decide to become an open society. The leaders have made it plain that money talks and BS walks!
The papermill was fine when it was in operation. The old office building would make a fine place for an exhibit on our paper making past. The NYC Bridge to perhaps be abandoned is best removed because the approaches impound ice during the spring melt. It is a cookie cutter design and of no special significance except its design reflected the price of cheap Bessemer steel at the time it was built.
The one bridge that is unusual is just downstream form the Winchester Street Bridge. It is a standard Baltimore truss except the lower cord is of eye-bar construction. There are four on the upstream side and six on the bottom probably to handle lateral loading in icing events.
Thanks Paper Boy and Alacajun for nice comments.
Anonymous, you may have a good point. On my web sites, I must pay for the domain, web space and defend the truth posted therein. If in error as was the case of Jeff Green’s choice of Sawyer House shingles, the only decent thing to do is to apologize and post his viewpoint and his reasons for a correct action.
As it turns out he was right and I was wrong. I for one would rather find out someone I thought in error was correct because it increases my faith in that person and is a humbling experience for me. Since none of us can be correct all of the time at least we can use our mistakes as a way to learn.
This forum has zero control and is a wide open shootout for anyone and everyone wishing to use or misuse it.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
and landed myself safely in Canada, where I was regarded as a man, and not as a thing.
The first time in my life that I ran away, was for ill treatment, in 1825. I was living with a Mr. Vires, in the village of Newcastle. His wife was a very cross woman. She was every day flogging me, boxing, pulling my ears, and scolding, so that I dreaded to enter the room where she was. This first started me to running away from them. I was often gone several days before I was caught. They would abuse me for going off, but it did no good. The next time they flogged me, I was off again; but after awhile they got sick of their bargain, and returned me back into the hands of my owners. By this time Mr. White had married his second wife. She was what I call a tyrant. I lived with her several months, but she kept me almost half of my time in the woods, running from under the bloody lash. While I was at home she kept me all the time rubbing furniture, washing, scrubbing the floors; and when I was not doing this, she would often seat herself in a large rocking chair, with two pillows about her, and would make me rock her, and keep off the flies. She was too lazy to scratch her own head, and would often make me scratch and comb it for her. She would at other times lie on her bed, in warm weather, and make me fan her while she slept, scratch and rub her feet; but after awhile she got sick of me, and preferred a maiden servant to do such business. I was then hired out again; but by this time I had become much better skilled in running away, and would
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please
Mr. Rick Floraday,
Have you had enough yet?
Would you care to let this site be a constructive discussion among adults?
It is good to know you are not going to run for office again. I had heard this from other sources, but its nice to hear it directly.
If you can let your obsession for bashing Paisley, Mayor Al, David Smith, and other concerned citizens go, perhaps we can once again have interesting and informative discussions. They are not the source of all problems and evil in Monroe. Your friends are not the solution to the problems and evil in Monroe.
I will say I am not David Smith, and will say he is not behind the fine reading that has been posted on this site for the edification of readers the last two days.
I feel that reading fine historical documents, the Bible, Koran, and Book of Mormon, and classic novels along with some interesting articles is more productive than what you have been purveying on this blog.
Hate and spewing venom have no place in public discussion.
Personally I have many friends whom I disagree with. We have interesting and informative discussions about many topics. At the end we don’t always agree, but we leave friends with mutual respect.
This is the kind of relationship I have with John Iacoangelli. He is a man I don’t always agree with, but I respect him immensely. I think the same is true of him about me.
Why can’t you take a cue from your friend and behave in the same way?
Personal attacks, lies, and character assassination have no place in public discussions.
Please learn how to conduct yourself in a professional manner on this blog and in public.
If not, I will commit to your readers to continue to provide a steady diet of suitable alternative reading material for their edification.
Unfortunately I am afraid to sign my name given the childish behavior that has went on in this community by a very few parties including yourself the last few years.
I hope I can sign my name without fear in the future. In the meantime I am not David Smith.
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt]
[A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt]
[A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt] [A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt]
[Exeunt]
13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Chapter 1
CHAPTER I.
Sketch of my Parentage. -- Early separation from my Mother. -- Hard Fare. -- First Experiments at running away. -- Earnest longing for Freedom. -- Abhorrent nature of Slavery.
I was born May 1815, of a slave mother, in Shelby County, Kentucky, and was claimed as the property of David White Esq. He came into possession of my mother long before I was born. I was brought up in the Counties of Shelby, Henry, Oldham, and Trimble. Or, more correctly speaking, in the above counties, I may safely say, I was flogged up; for where I should have received moral, mental, and religious instruction, I received stripes without number, the object of which was to degrade and keep me in subordination. I can truly say, that I drank deeply of the bitter cup of suffering and woe. I have been drag-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-014-
ged down to the lowest depths of human degradation and wretchedness, by Slaveholders.
My mother was known by the name of Milldred Jackson. She is the mother of seven slaves only, all being sons, of whom I am the eldest. She was also so fortunate or unfortunate, as to have some of what is called the slaveholding blood flowing in her veins. I know not how much; but not enough to prevent her children though fathered by slaveholders, from being bought and sold in the slave markets of the South. It is almost impossible for slaves to give a correct account of their male parentage. All that I know about it is, that my mother informed me that my fathers name was James Bibb. He was doubtless one of the present Bibb family of Kentucky; but I have no personal knowledge of him at all, for he died before my recollection.Chapter 1
CHAPTER I.
Sketch of my Parentage. -- Early separation from my Mother. -- Hard Fare. -- First Experiments at running away. -- Earnest longing for Freedom. -- Abhorrent nature of Slavery.
I was born May 1815, of a slave mother, in Shelby County, Kentucky, and was claimed as the property of David White Esq. He came into possession of my mother long before I was born. I was brought up in the Counties of Shelby, Henry, Oldham, and Trimble. Or, more correctly speaking, in the above counties, I may safely say, I was flogged up; for where I should have received moral, mental, and religious instruction, I received stripes without number, the object of which was to degrade and keep me in subordination. I can truly say, that I drank deeply of the bitter cup of suffering and woe. I have been drag-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-014-
ged down to the lowest depths of human degradation and wretchedness, by Slaveholders.
My mother was known by the name of Milldred Jackson. She is the mother of seven slaves only, all being sons, of whom I am the eldest. She was also so fortunate or unfortunate, as to have some of what is called the slaveholding blood flowing in her veins. I know not how much; but not enough to prevent her children though fathered by slaveholders, from being bought and sold in the slave markets of the South. It is almost impossible for slaves to give a correct account of their male parentage. All that I know about it is, that my mother informed me that my fathers name was James Bibb. He was doubtless one of the present Bibb family of Kentucky; but I have no personal knowledge of him at all, for he died before my recollection.
The first time I was separated from my mother, I was young and small. I knew nothing of my condition then as a slave. I was living with Mr. White whose wife died and left him a widower with one little girl, who was said to be the legitimate owner of my mother, and all her children. This girl was also my playmate when we were children.
I was taken away from my mother, and hired out to labor for various persons, eight or ten years in succession; and all my wages were expended for the education of Harriet White, my playmate. It was then my sorrows and sufferings commenced. It was then I first commenced seeing and feeling that I was a wretched slave, compelled to work under the lash without wages, and often without
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
13 July, 2007
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 1:33 PM on Jul 12, 2007
28 July, 2007
jafo said...
h, and for want of food and raiment; I confess that it was no disadvantage to be passed through the hands of so many families, as the only source of information that I had to enlighten my mind, consisted in what I could see and hear from others. Slaves were not allowed books, pen, ink, nor paper, to improve their minds. But it seems to me now, that I was particularly observing, and apt to retain what came under my observation. But more especially, all that I heard about liberty and freedom to the slaves, I never forgot. Among other good trades I learned the art of running away to perfection. I made a regular business of it, and never gave it up, until I had broken the bands of slavery,
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and landed myself safely in Canada, where I was regarded as a man, and not as a thing.
The first time in my life that I ran away, was for ill treatment, in 1825. I was living with a Mr. Vires, in the village of Newcastle. His wife was a very cross woman. She was every day flogging me, boxing, pulling my ears, and scolding, so that I dreaded to enter the room where she was. This first started me to running away from them. I was often gone several days before I was caught. They would abuse me for going off, but it did no good. The next time they flogged me, I was off again; but after awhile they got sick of their bargain, and returned me back into the hands of my owners. By this time Mr. White had married his second wife. She was what I call a tyrant. I lived with her several months, but she kept me almost half of my time in the woods, running from under the bloody lash. While I was at home she kept me all the time rubbing furniture, washing, scrubbing the floors; and when I was not doing this, she would often seat herself in a large rocking chair, with two pillows about her, and would make me rock her, and keep off the flies. She was too lazy to scratch her own head, and would often make me scratch and comb it for her. She would at other times lie on her bed, in warm weather, and make me fan her while she slept, scratch and rub her feet; but after awhile she got sick of me, and preferred a maiden servant to do such business. I was then hired out again; but by this time I had become much better skilled in running away, and would
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make calculation to avoid detection, by taking with me a bridle. If any body should see me in the woods, as they have, and asked "what are you doing here sir? you are a runaway?" -- I said, "no, sir, I am looking for our old mare;" at other times, "looking for our cows." For such excuses I was let pass. In fact, the only weapon of self defence that I could use successfully, was that of deception. It is useless for a poor helpless slave, to resist a white man in a slaveholding State. Public opinion and the law is against him; and resistance in many cases is death to the slave, while the law declares, that he shall submit or die.
The circumstances in which I was then placed, gave me a longing desire to be free. It kindled a fire of liberty within my breast which has never yet been quenched. This seemed to be a part of my nature; it was first revealed to me by the inevitable laws of nature's God. I could see that the All-wise Creator, had made man a free, moral, intelligent and accountable being; capable of knowing good and evil. And I believed then, as I believe now, that every man has a right to wages for his labor; a right to his own wife and children; a right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness; and a right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. But here, in the light of these truths, I was a slave, a prisoner for life; I could possess nothing, nor acquire anything but what must belong to my keeper. No one can imagine my feelings in my reflecting moments, but he who has himself been a slave. Oh! I have often wept over my con- dition, while sauntering through the forest, to escape cruel punishment.
"No arm to protect me from tyrants aggression;
No parents to cheer me when laden with grief.
Man may picture the bounds of the rocks and the rivers,
The hills and the valleys, the lakes and the ocean,
But the horrors of slavery, he never can trace."
The term slave to this day sounds with terror to my soul, -- a word too obnoxious to speak -- a system too intolerable to be endured. I know this from long and sad experience. I now feel as if I had just been aroused from sleep, and looking back with quickened perception at the state of torment from whence I fled. I was there held and claimed as a slave; as such I was subjected to the will and power of my keeper, in all respects whatsoever. That the slave is a human being, no one can deny. It is his lot to be exposed in common with other men, to the calamities of sickness, death, and the misfortunes incident to life. But unlike other men, he is denied the consolation of struggling against external difficulties, such as destroy the life, liberty, and happiness of himself and family. A slave may be bought and sold in the market like an ox. He is liable to be sold off to a distant land from his family. He is bound in chains hand and foot; and his sufferings are aggravated a hundred fold, by the terrible thought, that he is not allowed to struggle against misfortune, corporeal punishment, insults and outrages committed upon himself and family; and he is not allowed to help himself, to resist or escape the blow, which he sees impending over him.
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This idea of utter helplessness, in perpetual bondage, is the more distressing, as there is no period even with the remotest generation when it shall terminate.
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13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
13 July, 2007
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 1:33 PM on Jul 12, 2007
28 July, 2007
jafo said...
h, and for want of food and raiment; I confess that it was no disadvantage to be passed through the hands of so many families, as the only source of information that I had to enlighten my mind, consisted in what I could see and hear from others. Slaves were not allowed books, pen, ink, nor paper, to improve their minds. But it seems to me now, that I was particularly observing, and apt to retain what came under my observation. But more especially, all that I heard about liberty and freedom to the slaves, I never forgot. Among other good trades I learned the art of running away to perfection. I made a regular business of it, and never gave it up, until I had broken the bands of slavery,
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and landed myself safely in Canada, where I was regarded as a man, and not as a thing.
The first time in my life that I ran away, was for ill treatment, in 1825. I was living with a Mr. Vires, in the village of Newcastle. His wife was a very cross woman. She was every day flogging me, boxing, pulling my ears, and scolding, so that I dreaded to enter the room where she was. This first started me to running away from them. I was often gone several days before I was caught. They would abuse me for going off, but it did no good. The next time they flogged me, I was off again; but after awhile they got sick of their bargain, and returned me back into the hands of my owners. By this time Mr. White had married his second wife. She was what I call a tyrant. I lived with her several months, but she kept me almost half of my time in the woods, running from under the bloody lash. While I was at home she kept me all the time rubbing furniture, washing, scrubbing the floors; and when I was not doing this, she would often seat herself in a large rocking chair, with two pillows about her, and would make me rock her, and keep off the flies. She was too lazy to scratch her own head, and would often make me scratch and comb it for her. She would at other times lie on her bed, in warm weather, and make me fan her while she slept, scratch and rub her feet; but after awhile she got sick of me, and preferred a maiden servant to do such business. I was then hired out again; but by this time I had become much better skilled in running away, and would
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make calculation to avoid detection, by taking with me a bridle. If any body should see me in the woods, as they have, and asked "what are you doing here sir? you are a runaway?" -- I said, "no, sir, I am looking for our old mare;" at other times, "looking for our cows." For such excuses I was let pass. In fact, the only weapon of self defence that I could use successfully, was that of deception. It is useless for a poor helpless slave, to resist a white man in a slaveholding State. Public opinion and the law is against him; and resistance in many cases is death to the slave, while the law declares, that he shall submit or die.
The circumstances in which I was then placed, gave me a longing desire to be free. It kindled a fire of liberty within my breast which has never yet been quenched. This seemed to be a part of my nature; it was first revealed to me by the inevitable laws of nature's God. I could see that the All-wise Creator, had made man a free, moral, intelligent and accountable being; capable of knowing good and evil. And I believed then, as I believe now, that every man has a right to wages for his labor; a right to his own wife and children; a right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness; and a right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. But here, in the light of these truths, I was a slave, a prisoner for life; I could possess nothing, nor acquire anything but what must belong to my keeper. No one can imagine my feelings in my reflecting moments, but he who has himself been a slave. Oh! I have often wept over my con- dition, while sauntering through the forest, to escape cruel punishment.
"No arm to protect me from tyrants aggression;
No parents to cheer me when laden with grief.
Man may picture the bounds of the rocks and the rivers,
The hills and the valleys, the lakes and the ocean,
But the horrors of slavery, he never can trace."
The term slave to this day sounds with terror to my soul, -- a word too obnoxious to speak -- a system too intolerable to be endured. I know this from long and sad experience. I now feel as if I had just been aroused from sleep, and looking back with quickened perception at the state of torment from whence I fled. I was there held and claimed as a slave; as such I was subjected to the will and power of my keeper, in all respects whatsoever. That the slave is a human being, no one can deny. It is his lot to be exposed in common with other men, to the calamities of sickness, death, and the misfortunes incident to life. But unlike other men, he is denied the consolation of struggling against external difficulties, such as destroy the life, liberty, and happiness of himself and family. A slave may be bought and sold in the market like an ox. He is liable to be sold off to a distant land from his family. He is bound in chains hand and foot; and his sufferings are aggravated a hundred fold, by the terrible thought, that he is not allowed to struggle against misfortune, corporeal punishment, insults and outrages committed upon himself and family; and he is not allowed to help himself, to resist or escape the blow, which he sees impending over him.
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This idea of utter helplessness, in perpetual bondage, is the more distressing, as there is no period even with the remotest generation when it shall terminate.
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13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
13 July, 2007
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 1:33 PM on Jul 12, 2007
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Friday, July 27, 2007
Zink caught?
There was a story in the Snooze the other day that said the graffiti vandal who was writing Zink on buildings and businesses was caught red-handed.
He's a 20-year-old? Geez, and here I was blaming teens.
Okay, he has to be prosecuted under the law, but if that wasn't a consideration, what do you think suitable punishment would be?
How about he does some jail time and also is sentenced to go around to schools telling kids how stupid he is?
BTW, congrats to those in Monroe who were sharp-eyed enough to spot this critter and blow the whistle. That's community spirit personified.
posted by The Observer at 7/27/2007 11:45:00 PM 3 comments
Wednesday, July 25, 2007
Let's not pity Patterson
It's hard to resist weighing in on the Patterson free parking pass controversy.
Those who haven't been paying attention should know that John Martin, a Monroe city councilman, has suggested that Patterson, head of the county tourism bureau, should be granted a free parking pass for downtown because he's a busy guy and tries to bring tourism bucks to the neighborhood.
For what it's worth, I like Patterson. Would I give him a free parking pass? Heck no.
(This sounds like a Monopoly game space anyway).
Does John, who pays himself well, really need a pass? Can't he just park a few more feet away in the riverfront parking lot? He can't get his tickets validated for obvious reasons (the policy wasn't designed for downtown employees). If John can get a pass, I can think of dozens of other people who should, but won't embarrass them by naming them here.
What seems to be more important is that the city work out some system of ticketing that doesn't chase away first-time visitors to the city. Either have printed on the ticket itself that it can be validated at merchants or waive the fine for out-of-towners who bring the ticket to city hall within two hours of it being issued. This policy probably chases away as many tourists as Patterson brings in.
Martin might be bright most of the time, but what was he smoking this time?
BTW, I like McGeady's a lot better now than when Martin ran it.
posted by The Observer at 7/25/2007 11:28:00 AM 12 comments
Monday, July 23, 2007
A rising clamor
Some of the commenters on this blog have been calling for me to screen or censor the comments.
I can do this, but I don't want to.
But I will if I have to.
What is strange about this is that if I start to do that, the people who are forcing me to do it will no longer be able to comment.
What I can't figure out is what purpose they think they might be serving.
If they think posting long excerpts from the Old Testament or dissertations on communism (I actually found that quite interesting) somehow will corrupt the blog or discourage posters, they've already been proven wrong.
In the past, I've pleaded for commenters to keep their comments clean. Let's face it, a comment can be vile and evil, but still avoid language that might give some kid who stumbled upon it an education he doesn't really want or need. Not everyone has responded to that plea. So I'm considering making the move to bring the blog to a bit higher level.
Everybody in favor, say aye.
This might even take this blog back to how it all began -- with me making passing comments to the entertainment or irritation of a few who visited regularly.
A while back someone put a link to this site on another forum widely accessed by the general public. I thought that would be a bad move. It's been bad and good.
But I think the blog can better be a force for good if content now is screened by my good filter.
That means it will be bad for a lot of people.
But what it comes down to is that this blog really is mostly about me anyway. And if I start to censor, it really will be all about me.
So should I pull the trigger because of a few morons?
posted by The Observer at 7/23/2007 10:22:00 AM 12 comments
Thursday, July 19, 2007
A hint of things to come?
I see where a $21,000 grant has been approved to do more research on where the significant points of the River Raisin Battlefield might lie.
The work will look at areas outside some of the portions already studied.
That's significant in itself, but what might be more significant is that the grant was from the National Park Service.
Does that mean the chances are better that the site will eventually be declared a National Historic Park?
I hope so.
Even if it's not, doesn't the site look a lot better since that old paper plant was knocked down? That definitely was an improvement to the city's looks.
posted by The Observer at 7/19/2007 09:02:00 AM 21 comments
Thursday, July 12, 2007
Okay, so the city is twisted
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 7/12/2007 01:33:00 PM 68 comments
Sunday, July 08, 2007
Is city a little twisted?
One of the commenters to the previous post said that this blog kind of shows the slimy underbelly of a snake of a city.
He or she feels the blog is a poor reflection of the town.
Another commenter said I should "pull the plug" on the blog.
It's something I've been considering for some time partly because city elections are drawing near and things will get uglier.
This blog has become a mystery to me. It began and continues to be my ramblings, more or less.
I think some of the commenters remarks have been nothing short of brilliant.
Others are as coarse and common as they come.
What I can't figure out is why there's so much venom vented here.
I would guess anyone who even bothers to post remarks here cares somewhat about their community. But it's pretty apparent that it goes beyond that. There's a lot of hate and vindictiveness.
I continue to be amazed at the Compora-Smith dialogue. Why does this matter?
Councilwoman Compora was elected to city council just like everyone else on council. Making nasty remarks about her here won't determine whether she gets re-elected. How well she represents her constituents will determine whether she has a chance at re-election.
David Smith will probably continue to comment on city issues -- heck, he has his own Web site to vent on. Bashing Smith isn't going to make him go away and, he too will be judged by his constituency.
My guess is that Compora on council is just trying to irritate and embarrass fellow councilmembers who she has little regard for in hopes of seeing them get voted off the council.
My guess is what she says at council is only a small part of what she tells voters in her neighborhood.
My guess is that her performance on city council is being both jeered and cheered by different populations. If she doesn't get re-elected, she'll probably still have a lot to say at council meetings. If she does get re-elected, she'll have even more to say.
The same probably applies to Smith.
Obviously they have some personal animosities. SO WHAT!
If people who contribute to this blog really enjoy this nonproductive bashing, maybe someone should just start a blog of their own dedicated to that topic.
As far as I can tell, this weird feud isn't helping the city and, I agree, is probably hurting it.
Having said that, let see if I can turn the topic a little.
First, someone said John Patterson was wasting taxpayer dollars by having a laser show downtown. If the tourism bureau paid for it, it's not taxpayer dollars that paid for it, it's revenue from visitors to the area who use hotels and motels in the area. It's a fee attached to their room bill.
Second, I was wondering how people feel about holding the fireworks at the state park. I've heard some some people who were at the show that they liked it better at the fairgrounds because it was easy to get in and out and they didn't have to pay a park entrance fee.
Does anyone have strong feelings about this?
posted by The Observer at 7/08/2007 12:59:00 PM 59 comments
Monday, July 02, 2007
City study a little twisted?
I caught bits and pieces of that presentation on the city operational study.
Is it just me or did anyone think that the study had a little too much anti-union, pro-privatization spin?
It seemed like every 10th sentence out of the consultant's mouth mentioned stuff about conciliatory attitudes and outsourcing. While those tactics could help, why couldn't he just have highlighted areas of high cost and inefficiency and let the the city figure out what alternatives it could explore? Maybe it's just me.
Anybody else get these strange vibes?
posted by The Observer at 7/02/2007 01:35:00 PM 34 comments
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28 July, 2007
Jo Jo said...
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
Complaint about photos of sign photos October 2005 prior to election told to Judge. Actual date November 20. Transcript - March 21- page 6 line 20. Claims by Compora false as to time and conversation.
First incident: Yelling and screaming while on cell phone to Andrew. No yelling or screaming. Martin said she was nuts, not me. Martin was there in court to testify - Page 12 line 23. Box magazine on military surplus rifle.
CPC appointments - false claim of voting against all. She approved others on consent agenda. False testimony to Judge line 22 Page 14.
Concerning my being council lounge with Charles Evens. I did tell her if she did not quit having her fits I would bring a camera and photograph same. No screaming or claims she was a lousy councilperson. If anything, she has established that herself. Her claims of me being the most evil horrific person is not normal behavior for her treatment of citizens—it is normally reserved for honorable council and mayor.
Claimed third incident false and exaggerated. I may have said that if you put any signs up concerning these persons business, they will go on the internet as well. I did tell her that if there was a problem with her car it was not me. Line 2 Page 23 concerning skunk oil—she now claims it was me. This was covered in newspaper and to be determined that she ran over a skunk. She wishes to sue everyone for everything imaginable.
Page 29 – Line 22 to near end. I am accused of her being excluded and shunned by council because I am mayor’s friend and she is of the Iacoangeli administration. Foolishness!
The camera is noted to have a small green light emitting diode not a laser. There is no function essential to camera operation. I doubt that Kodak would sell a 200 dollar camera with a dangerous feature without a warning.
Hearing Thursday 19, 2007—New Transcript. Compora claims to retained an attorney form Detroit but he is not present. Judge explains that this is unfair to me. Compora chooses to proceed alone ill prepared to proceed.
Her witnesses are Charles and Mary Lanham. Rick Floraday was present with her but did not testify. Mary Lanham was asked to testify and the issue she was to testify on had to be established. Mary complained of a neck disorder. Testimony on light ruled hearsay.
Entire testimony was a replay of the use of a camera and how I got permission. This was explained correctly by the city attorney during the occurrence.
Likewise Mr. Lanham repeated essentially the same thing none of which was a violation of Compora’s rights or the law. This ran through page 26. The remainder of over 40 pages is Compora making all manner of rambling complaints concerning search engines finding my web site as well as others Compora rants including newspaper reports on their sites.
The next week she was represented by an attorney and the matter was settled between the attorneys lifting the PPO. Both of us must avoid contact through the end of the year except here and my website is safe and will continue—a victory for the first amendment.
28 July, 2007
jafo said...
Anonymous said...
Mr. Rick Floraday,
Have you had enough yet?
Would you care to let this site be a constructive discussion among adults?
It is good to know you are not going to run for office again. I had heard this from other sources, but its nice to hear it directly.
If you can let your obsession for bashing Paisley, Mayor Al, David Smith, and other concerned citizens go, perhaps we can once again have interesting and informative discussions. They are not the source of all problems and evil in Monroe. Your friends are not the solution to the problems and evil in Monroe.
I will say I am not David Smith, and will say he is not behind the fine reading that has been posted on this site for the edification of readers the last two days.
I feel that reading fine historical documents, the Bible, Koran, and Book of Mormon, and classic novels along with some interesting articles is more productive than what you have been purveying on this blog.
Hate and spewing venom have no place in public discussion.
Personally I have many friends whom I disagree with. We have interesting and informative discussions about many topics. At the end we don’t always agree, but we leave friends with mutual respect.
This is the kind of relationship I have with John Iacoangelli. He is a man I don’t always agree with, but I respect him immensely. I think the same is true of him about me.
Why can’t you take a cue from your friend and behave in the same way?
Personal attacks, lies, and character assassination have no place in public discussions.
Please learn how to conduct yourself in a professional manner on this blog and in public.
If not, I will commit to your readers to continue to provide a steady diet of suitable alternative reading material for their edification.
Unfortunately I am afraid to sign my name given the childish behavior that has went on in this community by a very few parties including yourself the last few years.
I hope I can sign my name without fear in the future. In the meantime I am not David Smith.
Sincerely,
XXXXX.
13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Quit denying that you're David Smith. Why don't you stop blaming others for your sick postings on this blog. Blame everybody but yourself,everybody knows it's you. Delusional jackass!
Maybe should ask John Iocoangeli if he considers YOU a friend, bet you'd be surprised to hear not many people would WANT you as their friend. What a shock! Nice guy like you? Only the 3C will take you. Like attracts like.
You think you have respect from other people? What's to respect? Revulsion would be more like it.
Ever hear of what goes around comes around in life?
Perhaps you have totaled up so much "respect" that you will be amply rewarded in kind.
In the meantime you're fooling no one.
13 July, 2007
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PREFACE TO 1888 ENGLISH EDITION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Manifesto was published as the platform of the Communist League, a working men's association, first exclusively German, later on international, and under the political conditions of the Continent before 1848, unavoidably a secret society. At a Congress of the League, held in November 1847, Marx and Engels were commissioned to prepare a complete theoretical and practical party programme. Drawn up in German, in January 1848, the manuscript was sent to the printer in London a few weeks before the French Revolution of February 24. A French translation was brought out in Paris shortly before the insurrection of June 1848. The first English translation, by Miss Helen Macfarlane, appeared in George Julian Harney's _Red Republican_, London, 1850. A Danish and a Polish edition had also been published.
The defeat of the Parisian insurrection of June 1848 -- the first great battle between proletariat and bourgeoisie -- drove again into the background, for a time, the social and political aspirations of the European working class. Thenceforth, the struggle for supremacy was, again, as it had been before the Revolution of February, solely between different sections of the propertied class; the working class was reduced to a fight for political elbow-room, and to the position of extreme wing of the middle-class Radicals. Wherever independent proletarian movements continued to show signs of life, they were ruthlessly hunted down. Thus the Prussian police hunted out the Central Board of the Communist League, then located in Cologne. The members were arrested and, after eighteen months' imprisonment, they were tried in October 1852. This selebrated "Cologne Communist Trial" lasted from October 4 till November 12; seven of the prisoners were sentenced to terms of imprisonment in a fortress, varying from three to six years. Immediately after the sentence, the League was formlly dissolved by the remaining members. As to the Manifesto, it seemed henceforth doomed to oblivion.
When the European workers had recovered sufficient strength for another attack on the ruling classes, the International Working Men's Association sprang up. But this association, formed with the express aim of welding into one body the whole militant proletariat of Europe and America, could not at once proclaim the principles laid down in the Manifesto. The International was bound to have a programme broad enough to be acceptable to the English trade unions, to the followers of Proudhon in France, Belgium, Italy, and Spain, and to the Lassalleans in Germany.
[ENGEL'S FOOTNOTE: Lassalle personally, to us, always acknowledged himself to be a disciple of Marx, and, as such, stood on the ground of the Manifesto. But in his first public agitation, 1862-1864, he did not go beyond demanding co-operative worhsops supported by state credit.]
Marx, who drew up this programme to the satisfaction of all parties, entirely trusted to the intellectual development of the working class, which was sure to result from combined action and mutual discussion. The very events and vicissitudes in the struggle against capital, the defeats even more than the victories, could not help bringing home to men's minds the insufficiency of their various favorite nostrums, and preparing the way for a more complete insight into the true conditions for working-class emancipation. And Marx was right. The International, on its breaking in 1874, left the workers quite different men from what it found them in 1864. Proudhonism in France, Lassalleanism in Germany, were dying out, and even the conservative English trade unions, though most of them had long since severed their connection with the International, were gradually advancing towards that point at which, last year at Swansea, their president could say in their name: "Continental socialism has lost its terror for us." In fact, the principles of the Manifesto had made considerable headway among the working men of all countries.
The Manifesto itself came thus to the front again. Since 1850, the German text had been reprinted several times in Switzerland, England, and America. In 1872, it was translated into English in New York, where the translation was published in _Woorhull and Claflin's Weekly_. From this English version, a French one was made in _Le Socialiste_ of New York. Since then, at least two more English translations, moer or less mutilated, have been brought out in America, and one of them has been reprinted in England. The first Russian translation, made by Bakunin, was published at Herzen's Kolokol office in Geneva, about 1863; a second one, by the heroic Vera Zasulich, also in Geneva, in 1882. A new Danish edition is to be found in _Socialdemokratisk Bibliothek_, Copenhagen, 1885; a fresh French translation in _Le Socialiste_, Paris, 1886. From this latter, a Spanish version was prepared and published in Madrid, 1886. The German reprints are not to be counted; there have been twelve altogether at the least. An Armenian translation, which was to be published in Constantinople some months ago, did not see the light, I am told, because the publisher was afraid of bringing out a book with the name of Marx on it, while the translator declined to call it his own production. Of further translations into other languages I have heard but had not seen. Thus the history of the Manifesto reflects the history of the modern working-class movement; at present, it is doubtless the most wide spread, the most international production of all socialist literature, the common platform acknowledged by millions of working men from Siberia to California.
Yet, when it was written, we could not have called it a _socialist_ manifesto. By Socialists, in 1847, were understood, on the one hand the adherents of the various Utopian systems: Owenites in England, Fourierists in France, both of them already reduced to the position of mere sects, and gradually dying out; on the other hand, the most multifarious social quacks who, by all manner of tinkering, professed to redress, without any danger to capital and profit, all sorts of social grievances, in both cases men outside the working-class movement, and looking rather to the "educated" classes for support. Whatever portion of the working class had become convinced of the insufficiency of mere political revolutions, and had proclaimed the necessity of total social change, called itself Communist. It was a crude, rough-hewn, purely instinctive sort of communism; still, it touched the cardinal point and was powerful enough amongst the working class to produce the Utopian communism of Cabet in France, and of Weitling
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PREFACE TO 1888 ENGLISH EDITION
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Manifesto was published as the platform of the Communist League, a working men's association, first exclusively German, later on international, and under the political conditions of the Continent before 1848, unavoidably a secret society. At a Congress of the League, held in November 1847, Marx and Engels were commissioned to prepare a complete theoretical and practical party programme. Drawn up in German, in January 1848, the manuscript was sent to the printer in London a few weeks before the French Revolution of February 24. A French translation was brought out in Paris shortly before the insurrection of June 1848. The first English translation, by Miss Helen Macfarlane, appeared in George Julian Harney's _Red Republican_, London, 1850. A Danish and a Polish edition had also been published.
The defeat of the Parisian insurrection of June 1848 -- the first great battle between proletariat and bourgeoisie -- drove again into the background, for a time, the social and political aspirations of the European working class. Thenceforth, the struggle for supremacy was, again, as it had been before the Revolution of February, solely between different sections of the propertied class; the working class was reduced to a fight for political elbow-room, and to the position of extreme wing of the middle-class Radicals. Wherever independent proletarian movements continued to show signs of life, they were ruthlessly hunted down. Thus the Prussian police hunted out the Central Board of the Communist League, then located in Cologne. The members were arrested and, after eighteen months' imprisonment, they were tried in October 1852. This selebrated "Cologne Communist Trial" lasted from October 4 till November 12; seven of the prisoners were sentenced to terms of imprisonment in a fortress, varying from three to six years. Immediately after the sentence, the League was formlly dissolved by the remaining members. As to the Manifesto, it seemed henceforth doomed to oblivion.
When the European workers had recovered sufficient strength for another attack on the ruling classes, the International Working Men's Association sprang up. But this association, formed with the express aim of welding into one body the whole militant proletariat of Europe and America, could not at once proclaim the principles laid down in the Manifesto. The International was bound to have a programme broad enough to be acceptable to the English trade unions, to the followers of Proudhon in France, Belgium, Italy, and Spain, and to the Lassalleans in Germany.
[ENGEL'S FOOTNOTE: Lassalle personally, to us, always acknowledged himself to be a disciple of Marx, and, as such, stood on the ground of the Manifesto. But in his first public agitation, 1862-1864, he did not go beyond demanding co-operative worhsops supported by state credit.]
Marx, who drew up this programme to the satisfaction of all parties, entirely trusted to the intellectual development of the working class, which was sure to result from combined action and mutual discussion. The very events and vicissitudes in the struggle against capital, the defeats even more than the victories, could not help bringing home to men's minds the insufficiency of their various favorite nostrums, and preparing the way for a more complete insight into the true conditions for working-class emancipation. And Marx was right. The International, on its breaking in 1874, left the workers quite different men from what it found them in 1864. Proudhonism in France, Lassalleanism in Germany, were dying out, and even the conservative English trade unions, though most of them had long since severed their connection with the International, were gradually advancing towards that point at which, last year at Swansea, their president could say in their name: "Continental socialism has lost its terror for us." In fact, the principles of the Manifesto had made considerable headway among the working men of all countries.
The Manifesto itself came thus to the front again. Since 1850, the German text had been reprinted several times in Switzerland, England, and America. In 1872, it was translated into English in New York, where the translation was published in _Woorhull and Claflin's Weekly_. From this English version, a French one was made in _Le Socialiste_ of New York. Since then, at least two more English translations, moer or less mutilated, have been brought out in America, and one of them has been reprinted in England. The first Russian translation, made by Bakunin, was published at Herzen's Kolokol office in Geneva, about 1863; a second one, by the heroic Vera Zasulich, also in Geneva, in 1882. A new Danish edition is to be found in _Socialdemokratisk Bibliothek_, Copenhagen, 1885; a fresh French translation in _Le Socialiste_, Paris, 1886. From this latter, a Spanish version was prepared and published in Madrid, 1886. The German reprints are not to be counted; there have been twelve altogether at the least. An Armenian translation, which was to be published in Constantinople some months ago, did not see the light, I am told, because the publisher was afraid of bringing out a book with the name of Marx on it, while the translator declined to call it his own production. Of further translations into other languages I have heard but had not seen. Thus the history of the Manifesto reflects the history of the modern working-class movement; at present, it is doubtless the most wide spread, the most international production of all socialist literature, the common platform acknowledged by millions of working men from Siberia to California.
Yet, when it was written, we could not have called it a _socialist_ manifesto. By Socialists, in 1847, were understood, on the one hand the adherents of the various Utopian systems: Owenites in England, Fourierists in France, both of them already reduced to the position of mere sects, and gradually dying out; on the other hand, the most multifarious social quacks who, by all manner of tinkering, professed to redress, without any danger to capital and profit, all sorts of social grievances, in both cases men outside the working-class movement, and looking rather to the "educated" classes for support. Whatever portion of the working class had become convinced of the insufficiency of mere political revolutions, and had proclaimed the necessity of total social change, called itself Communist. It was a crude, rough-hewn, purely instinctive sort of communism; still, it touched the cardinal point and was powerful enough amongst the working class to produce the Utopian communism of Cabet in France, and of Weitling
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughterThe young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. , the beautiful Helene.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene.
28 July, 2007
charles lampoon said...
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene.
28 July, 2007
mary lampoon said...
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughThe young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. ter, the beautiful Helene.
28 July, 2007
rickey floride said...
The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. The young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughThe young Princess Bolkonskaya had brought some work in a gold-embroidered velvet bag. Her pretty little upper lip, on which a delicate dark down was just perceptible, was too short for her teeth, but it lifted all the more sweetly, and was especially charming when she occasionally drew it down to meet the lower lip. As is always the case with a thoroughly attractive woman, her defect- the shortness of her upper lip and her half-open mouth- seemed to be her own special and peculiar form of beauty. Everyone brightened at the sight of this pretty young woman, so soon to become a mother, so full of life and health, and carrying her burden so lightly. Old men and dull dispirited young ones who looked at her, after being in her company and talking to her a little while, felt as if they too were becoming, like her, full of life and health. All who talked to her, and at each word saw her bright smile and the constant gleam of her white teeth, thought that they were in a specially amiable mood that day.
The little princess went round the table with quick, short, swaying steps, her workbag on her arm, and gaily spreading out her dress sat down on a sofa near the silver samovar, as if all she was doing was a pleasure to herself and to all around her. "I have brought my work," said she in French, displaying her bag and addressing all present. "Mind, Annette, I hope you have not played a wicked trick on me," she added, turning to her hostess. "You wrote that it was to be quite a small reception, and just see how badly I am dressed." And she spread out her arms to show her short-waisted, lace-trimmed, dainty gray dress, girdled with a broad ribbon just below the breast.
"Soyez tranquille, Lise, you will always be prettier than anyone else," replied Anna Pavlovna.
"You know," said the princess in the same tone of voice and still in French, turning to a general, "my husband is deserting me? He is going to get himself killed. Tell me what this wretched war is for?" she added, addressing Prince Vasili, and without waiting for an answer she turned to speak to his daughter, the beautiful Helene. ter, the beautiful Helene.
28 July, 2007
lindylou comprrru said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a councilcomments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
boss woman floride said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
shotgun slade said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
pig meat markham said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Elvis from elmara said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
16 July, 2007
Leave your comment
The historical Society just does not smell right. I maintain my membership only in the hope that they decide to become an open society. The leaders have made it plain that money talks and BS walks!
The papermill was fine when it was in operation. The old office building would make a fine place for an exhibit on our paper making past. The NYC Bridge to perhaps be abandoned is best removed because the approaches impound ice during the spring melt. It is a cookie cutter design and of no special significance except its design reflected the price of cheap Bessemer steel at the time it was built.
The one bridge that is unusual is just downstream form the Winchester Street Bridge. It is a standard Baltimore truss except the lower cord is of eye-bar construction. There are four on the upstream side and six on the bottom probably to handle lateral loading in icing events.
Thanks Paper Boy and Alacajun for nice comments.
Anonymous, you may have a good point. On my web sites, I must pay for the domain, web space and defend the truth posted therein. If in error as was the case of Jeff Green’s choice of Sawyer House shingles, the only decent thing to do is to apologize and post his viewpoint and his reasons for a correct action.
As it turns out he was right and I was wrong. I for one would rather find out someone I thought in error was correct because it increases my faith in that person and is a humbling experience for me. Since none of us can be correct all of the time at least we can use our mistakes as a way to learn.
This forum has zero control and is a wide open shootout for anyone and everyone wishing to use or misuse it.
28 July, 2007
zink said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
zinc balls frliday said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
zink chlorid floride said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
froiday running craps said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
floride comporaa said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
naacp for willie said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
iko iaco said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
we be votin said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
we be votin said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
splash pond skater said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
another early retiree said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
lerather balls said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
foriday not accunt said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
brass nuts said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an
28 July, 2007
canadian bitch said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
16 July, 2007
Leave your comment
The historical Society just does not smell right. I maintain my membership only in the hope that they decide to become an open society. The leaders have made it plain that money talks and BS walks!
The papermill was fine when it was in operation. The old office building would make a fine place for an exhibit on our paper making past. The NYC Bridge to perhaps be abandoned is best removed because the approaches impound ice during the spring melt. It is a cookie cutter design and of no special significance except its design reflected the price of cheap Bessemer steel at the time it was built.
The one bridge that is unusual is just downstream form the Winchester Street Bridge. It is a standard Baltimore truss except the lower cord is of eye-bar construction. There are four on the upstream side and six on the bottom probably to handle lateral loading in icing events.
Thanks Paper Boy and Alacajun for nice comments.
Anonymous, you may have a good point. On my web sites, I must pay for the domain, web space and defend the truth posted therein. If in error as was the case of Jeff Green’s choice of Sawyer House shingles, the only decent thing to do is to apologize and post his viewpoint and his reasons for a correct action.
As it turns out he was right and I was wrong. I for one would rather find out someone I thought in error was correct because it increases my faith in that person and is a humbling experience for me. Since none of us can be correct all of the time at least we can use our mistakes as a way to learn.
This forum has zero control and is a wide open shootout for anyone and everyone wishing to use or misuse it.
28 July, 2007
bitch from hell said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
16 July, 2007
Leave your comment
The historical Society just does not smell right. I maintain my membership only in the hope that they decide to become an open society. The leaders have made it plain that money talks and BS walks!
The papermill was fine when it was in operation. The old office building would make a fine place for an exhibit on our paper making past. The NYC Bridge to perhaps be abandoned is best removed because the approaches impound ice during the spring melt. It is a cookie cutter design and of no special significance except its design reflected the price of cheap Bessemer steel at the time it was built.
The one bridge that is unusual is just downstream form the Winchester Street Bridge. It is a standard Baltimore truss except the lower cord is of eye-bar construction. There are four on the upstream side and six on the bottom probably to handle lateral loading in icing events.
Thanks Paper Boy and Alacajun for nice comments.
Anonymous, you may have a good point. On my web sites, I must pay for the domain, web space and defend the truth posted therein. If in error as was the case of Jeff Green’s choice of Sawyer House shingles, the only decent thing to do is to apologize and post his viewpoint and his reasons for a correct action.
As it turns out he was right and I was wrong. I for one would rather find out someone I thought in error was correct because it increases my faith in that person and is a humbling experience for me. Since none of us can be correct all of the time at least we can use our mistakes as a way to learn.
This forum has zero control and is a wide open shootout for anyone and everyone wishing to use or misuse it.
28 July, 2007
jafo said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
Real CPA said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
zink boy said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
jafo said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
NOM said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
28 July, 2007
Gettlebuggerflinger uaw said...
and landed myself safely in Canada, where I was regarded as a man, and not as a thing.
The first time in my life that I ran away, was for ill treatment, in 1825. I was living with a Mr. Vires, in the village of Newcastle. His wife was a very cross woman. She was every day flogging me, boxing, pulling my ears, and scolding, so that I dreaded to enter the room where she was. This first started me to running away from them. I was often gone several days before I was caught. They would abuse me for going off, but it did no good. The next time they flogged me, I was off again; but after awhile they got sick of their bargain, and returned me back into the hands of my owners. By this time Mr. White had married his second wife. She was what I call a tyrant. I lived with her several months, but she kept me almost half of my time in the woods, running from under the bloody lash. While I was at home she kept me all the time rubbing furniture, washing, scrubbing the floors; and when I was not doing this, she would often seat herself in a large rocking chair, with two pillows about her, and would make me rock her, and keep off the flies. She was too lazy to scratch her own head, and would often make me scratch and comb it for her. She would at other times lie on her bed, in warm weather, and make me fan her while she slept, scratch and rub her feet; but after awhile she got sick of me, and preferred a maiden servant to do such business. I was then hired out again; but by this time I had become much better skilled in running away, and would
28 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting.
Please begin using some "editorial" control over some of the stupid comments. It would be nice to have a good exchange of ideals on this forum. Otherwise we simply look like an Internet version of a council meeting. Please
28 July, 2007
Jafo said...
Mr. Rick Floraday,
Have you had enough yet?
Would you care to let this site be a constructive discussion among adults?
It is good to know you are not going to run for office again. I had heard this from other sources, but its nice to hear it directly.
If you can let your obsession for bashing Paisley, Mayor Al, David Smith, and other concerned citizens go, perhaps we can once again have interesting and informative discussions. They are not the source of all problems and evil in Monroe. Your friends are not the solution to the problems and evil in Monroe.
I will say I am not David Smith, and will say he is not behind the fine reading that has been posted on this site for the edification of readers the last two days.
I feel that reading fine historical documents, the Bible, Koran, and Book of Mormon, and classic novels along with some interesting articles is more productive than what you have been purveying on this blog.
Hate and spewing venom have no place in public discussion.
Personally I have many friends whom I disagree with. We have interesting and informative discussions about many topics. At the end we don’t always agree, but we leave friends with mutual respect.
This is the kind of relationship I have with John Iacoangelli. He is a man I don’t always agree with, but I respect him immensely. I think the same is true of him about me.
Why can’t you take a cue from your friend and behave in the same way?
Personal attacks, lies, and character assassination have no place in public discussions.
Please learn how to conduct yourself in a professional manner on this blog and in public.
If not, I will commit to your readers to continue to provide a steady diet of suitable alternative reading material for their edification.
Unfortunately I am afraid to sign my name given the childish behavior that has went on in this community by a very few parties including yourself the last few years.
I hope I can sign my name without fear in the future. In the meantime I am not David Smith.
28 July, 2007
OBSERVATION said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
WINDY said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
The Story of the World Record Wind
Alex MacKenzie
During a wild April storm in 1934, a wind gust of 231 miles per hour (372 kilometers per hour) pushed across the summit of Mount Washington. This wind speed still stands as the all-time surface wind speed record. Below are excerpts from then-observer Alex McKenzie's book The Way It Was which accounts in detail the experience of documenting and living to tell the tale of a 231 mph wind.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
The sun rose on April 10, 1934, ushering in a typical April day atop Mount Washington. Normally, the rest of New England welcomes the warmth of spring during a typical April, but winter keeps hold on the high peaks of New Hampshire's Presidential Range well into May in most years.
The staff at the fledgling Mount Washington Observatory, including Salvatore Pagliuca, Alex McKenzie and Wendell Stephenson managed to make it through their second full winter on the mountain. However, they were anxiously awaiting the coming of spring, with its more moderate temperatures and wind. Before the week was out, those men would not only get another severe taste of winter, they would be a part of one of the most intense storms in recorded history.
April 10 was the tight-knit summit crew's first day without Robert Stone, one of their coworkers who was injured in a skiing accident. He was taken down the mountain on a toboggan on April 9 to seek further medical attention on his severely bruised hip. Down a man, they would have to get by on their own for a while, with some help from their guests, Arthur Griffin and George Leslie.
On this April Tuesday, a weak storm system located over the western Great Lakes was slowly approaching New England. In addition, another batch of energy was located off the coast of North Carolina. Even more importantly, a huge ridge of high pressure was in place over eastern Canada and the northern Atlantic. On the summit of Mount Washington, April 10 was uneventful.
"April 10. A perfect day. Cloudless and calm. Hazy. Sun dogs at 5:30 p - a refraction phenomenon of no special importance." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
The large ridge of high pressure continued to build on April 11, causing a major blocking pattern over the ocean. As a result, the energy east of the Carolinas was forced to retrograde to the northwest, combining with the developing system over the Great Lakes.
Pagliuca, Stephenson and McKenzie, along with their guests, awoke to a brilliant sunrise early on April 11. The coal stove in the Auto Road's Stage Office (the Observatory's early home) took the chill off the room.
"Hardly did we realize as we were enjoying a fine view of the Atlantic Ocean that we were to experience during the next 48 hours one of the worst storms ever recorded in the history of any observatory." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
The relatively clear skies gave way to clouds, increasing rapidly by afternoon. Fog obscured the summit by evening and rime ice formed up to one foot thick. The Observatory felines all huddled near the coal stove in the late afternoon, the warmest spot in the tiny building. Cats were at home around the Observatory in 1934, as they are today. Oompha and her five kittens; along with Ammonuisance, visiting from the AMC's Lakes of the Clouds hut; Elmer, the timid one; and Manx, a tailless cat like Tikky from the first winter atop Mount Washington, all kept the summit crew company.
With high pressure building more and more to the north and east, and the low pressure becoming stronger to the west, an abnormally tight pressure gradient was forming to the north and east of the storm system. Pressure gradient is the change in pressure over some distance (either horizontally or vertically) with respect to a point in space. A tight pressure gradient results in air rushing quickly from high to low pressure.
"The meteorological notes for today do not say much. They only show a falling pressure, normal temperature, generally in 'rough frost forming' clouds, and rapidly increasing wind. Yes, rapidly increasing to values never dreamed before." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
At this point, winds on the summit were building stronger, reaching a max of 136 mph. Although well above hurricane-strength, there was no need to have the staff maintain a wide-awake, round-the-clock watch. Stephenson volunteered to take the overnight shift, since Pagliuca enjoyed taking the morning measurements and McKenzie was responsible for hours of radio tests throughout the day.
Thursday, April 12, 1934
"There was no doubt this morning that a super-hurricane, Mt. Washington style, was in full development." -- Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
After taking a short nap, Stephenson awoke to find that it was 4:00 am. Although groggy, he knew that the wind sounded louder and stronger, so he checked the recorder. He needed to convert the recorded reading to the true value according to the instrument's correction curve, and some quick math pointed to an average windspeed of only 105 mph. It was clearly less than he expected. This meant one thing-the instrument was hampered by ice buildup.
Stephenson suited up, grabbed a wooden club and headed for the door. The intense wind created so much pressure that he was knocked to the floor as he opened the door. He struggled as he made his way to the ladder. The wind was at his back, and actually helped him maintain solid footing on the ladder. With dozens of blows, he cleared the accumulated ice from the anemometer. He dropped the club by accident, and it sailed off into the fog towards the Tip Top House.
Back inside, he flipped on the recorder and began timing the clicks from the telegraph sounder. After three tries, he verified that the wind now topped 150 mph.
The pieces were coming together for a major weather event. On this day, the ridge over the Atlantic and the storm over the eastern Great Lakes had become even stronger. More importantly, the pressure gradient between these two systems was extremely tight on the northeast portion of the low. This was causing very strong and extremely rare southeast winds.
"I dropped all other activities and concentrated on observations. Everyone in the house was "mobilized' as during a war attack and assigned a job. The instruments were watched continuously so that they may give a continuous and accurate record of the various meteorological elements at work. The anemometer was particularly watched. A full tank of gasoline made us feel good." - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
As the day wore on, winds grew stronger and stronger. Frequent values of 220 mph were recorded between Noon and 1:00 pm, with occasional gusts of 229 mph. Then, at 1:21 pm on April 12, 1934, the extreme value of 231 mph out of the southeast was recorded. This would prove to be the highest natural surface wind velocity ever officially recorded by means of an anemometer, anywhere in the world.
"'Will they believe it?' was our first thought. I felt then the full responsibility of that startling measurement. Was my timing correct? Was the method OK? Was the calibration curve right? Was the stopwatch accurate?" - Log Book entry, Sal Pagliuca
Extremely strong winds were recorded later in the afternoon and evening of the 12th and then the storm slowly moved north and entered a weakening phase.
The storm lasted only one day. Some snow was recorded along with severe icing. The anemometer used to record the record wind was a heated anemometer designed special for Mount Washington. It was constructed in Cambridge MA, and tested in the wind tunnel at the Guggenheim Aeronautical Laboratory of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.
After the wind measurement, the anemometer was run through a number of tests by the National Weather Bureau and the historic measurement of 231 mph was confirmed to be a valid reading.
Although challenged by 1997's Typhoon Paka in Guam, Mount Washington's record still stands to this day.
What the World Record Means
On April 12, 1934, the highest surface wind measured anywhere on earth was clocked by the staff of the Mount Washington Observatory. This "World Record Wind" of 231 miles per hour has become the stuff of legend, but what is the meaning of that decades-old record today?
First and foremost, the World Record Wind is a testimony of the real extremes that can rule on Mount Washington. Significant cold, abundant snowfall, dense fog, heavy icing, and exceptional winds are a prominent feature of Mount Washington's environment. Yes, there are colder places, such as Antarctica, and snowier places, such as some peaks in the Cascade Range. However, Mount Washington, a small peak by global standards, really does have weather that can rival some of the most rugged places on earth. There are days each winter when the combination of life-threatening weather factors on Mount Washington is remarkably similar to weather extremes which have been recorded in the polar regions and on peaks three or four times Mount Washington's height. The World Record Wind is one benchmark testifying to the mountain's truly severe weather.
The World Record Wind is also a testimony to the dedication and diligence of the early crews of the Observatory. A part of the challenge of science is to observe and reliably record that which we study. For the Observatory, that means to monitor and to accurately measure the weather. Some measurements are relatively easy to obtain, such as using standard thermometers to record temperatures. For other weather parameters, measurement can be very challenging. To be able to accurately record the winds of Mount Washington, which are typically high and gusty, and to be able to do so during a severe icing event, is no simple matter. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous to climb atop a building in winds greater than 180 miles per hour, all to be sure an anemometer is free from rime. The fact that the 1934 Observatory crew could accurately measure a wind of this magnitude, during a period of very heavy glaze icing, is a tribute to their planning and engineering acumen, as well as to their commitment to establishing and maintaining this remote scientific outpost.
The story of the World Record Wind is also an inspiration to Observatory staff today. In 1934, not even two years after the Observatory was established, the Observatory staff was given a remarkable test and passed with flying colors. They anticipated a great challenge and rose to the occasion. Their good work serves as an example to us today and must spur us on to do things as noteworthy. As proud as we are of the achievements of the Observatory staff of the 1930's, we cannot rest on their laurels; we must earn our own.
There will likely come a day when another weather station reliably records a wind of greater than 231 miles per hour. When that day comes, Observatory staff, perhaps better than anyone, will understand the value of the achievement. But that next world record wind cannot diminish the significance of the 1934 World Record Wind, in what it will still say about the mountain and those who have worked there.
Tuesday, April 10, 1934
Wednesday, April 11, 1934
Thursday, April 12, 1934
Friday, April 13, 1934
Visitor Information
• Leave No Trace on Mount Washington
• The Impact of the Wind
• The Story of the World Record Wind
• The 1997 Challenge to the Record
• The Old Man of the Mountain
• Camping and Campground Info
• Fall Foliage Links
• Hiking and Trail Info
• Mountains of the Presidential Range
• Winter Visits to Mount Washington
• Spring Skiing
• Surviving Mount Washington
• Lightning Safety
• History of Mount Washington
• On-Line Maps and Directions
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
zinc nang zink said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
ding dong dasddy said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
nuther butt hole said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Just caught a glimpse of the last council meeting, and wondered why Councilwoman Compora questions every Mayor's appointment? She feels that the DMBN has the upper hand on the DDA, and I guess the question is why did she not question when the previous Mayor stacked the DDA deck in his favor? At least the DMBN has people involved who are property owners who pay into the DDA. The person removed from the DDA was former Councilwoman Guyor who lives on Macomb St. and has no interest in the DDA and pays no taxes into the DDA, so why would she be a good candidate? That would be the question to ask. That would be the person I wouldn't want making decisions on DDA funds, since her council record shows that she was simply a yes vote for the last Mayor. This again just shows that Compora is all for stacking boards for her own agenda, but not for the good of the area which the DDA serves.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Compora logic is a joke.
One month she will question the mayor on why his appointees are former council members - and say that the boards shouldn't be a dumping ground for ex-councilmembers.
Next month she'll be questioning why a former councilperson wasn't reappointed.
Compora is just simply out to stack the deck to Iaco's agenda. It is just icing on the cake if she can smear another citizen in the process.
15 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My observation is that Compora follows the directions of IACO and Rick Floraday. Note from the court transcript she can only offer testimony from a script to which David Smith’s Attorney and the Judge both took exception in her show cause hearing in Monroe County Circuit Court. Compora does not think far enough ahead to be a good liar so she is just a stupid liar. She even brought the Lampoon family along so Mary could claim a sore neck and bitch that she does not agree with the First amendment. Chuck Lampoon bitched about Dave bringing a pod to the council meeting so this must be a remake of The Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Yes, this appointment issue with Compora appeared to involve more purgered testimony in court because she swore that she voted against reappointing Andrew Smith because she had voted against the previous two appointments the reason being she wanted some fresh blood. Hell new blood is what a mosquito wants! The fact is that she voted for the previous two on the consent agenda.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Text book sample of ignoramus' talking out both sides of mouth.
This council is loaded with ignorant bobbleheads following a Mayor who is no longer with it. So that would make the council stacked with 6 yes votes from the bobbleheads.
BTW Al's Ethics Board seemed to serve "Honest Ed" well. Talk about a stacked board!
If the last two posters are saying that Al hasn't stacked boards with his own for his own agenda you must think we're all ignorant like you.
But then we all have to realize this blog is stacked with a councilman or two and a nut ball who are Al's lackeys and it serves as a bashing ram for all things Iaco and Compora while trying to make a washed out Mayor and bobblehead council look good.
Looks like the poor crippled old man is at it again. Just can't get past the old news PPO who can't use what's left of his mind to understand if he hadn't acted like an immature asshole he wouldn't be in this predicament.
What an ass! Give it up! The only victim you'll ever be is from your twisted mind and boring life sitting in front of a computer all day libeling others with lies because he has no life and he thinks if he "makes nice" with the 3C by bashing Iaco, Compora and others at least somebody will like him!
What a rotted person along with his only friends the 3C.
16 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
My uncle who is an anthropologist who has spent most of his career studying primitive tribal culture has reviewed my collection of Council sessions on DVD says that Compora obviously is in self denial that she is old baggy and over the hill. She is offering sexual attraction and recognition of her moves by males who she thinks have power. In other words, she is like the primate who exposes herself to a young male and then grabs his banana while he is distracted.
29 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt]
[A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt]
[A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt] [A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[A hall in DUKE SOLINUS'S palace.]
[Enter DUKE SOLINUS, AEGEON, Gaoler, Officers, and other Attendants]
AEGEON
Proceed, Solinus, to procure my fall
And by the doom of death end woes and all.
DUKE SOLINUS
Merchant of Syracuse, plead no more;
I am not partial to infringe our laws:
The enmity and discord which of late
Sprung from the rancorous outrage of your duke
To merchants, our well-dealing countrymen,
Who wanting guilders to redeem their lives
Have seal'd his rigorous statutes with their bloods,
Excludes all pity from our threatening looks.
For, since the mortal and intestine jars
'Twixt thy seditious countrymen and us,
It hath in solemn synods been decreed
Both by the Syracusians and ourselves,
To admit no traffic to our adverse towns Nay, more,
If any born at Ephesus be seen
At any Syracusian marts and fairs;
Again: if any Syracusian born
Come to the bay of Ephesus, he dies,
His goods confiscate to the duke's dispose,
Unless a thousand marks be levied,
To quit the penalty and to ransom him.
Thy substance, valued at the highest rate,
Cannot amount unto a hundred marks;
Therefore by law thou art condemned to die.
AEGEON
Yet this my comfort: when your words are done,
My woes end likewise with the evening sun.
DUKE SOLINUS
Well, Syracusian, say in brief the cause
Why thou departed'st from thy native home
And for what cause thou camest to Ephesus.
AEGEON
A heavier task could not have been imposed
Than I to speak my griefs unspeakable:
Yet, that the world may witness that my end
Was wrought by nature, not by vile offence,
I'll utter what my sorrows give me leave.
In Syracusa was I born, and wed
Unto a woman, happy but for me,
And by me, had not our hap been bad.
With her I lived in joy; our wealth increased
By prosperous voyages I often made
To Epidamnum; till my factor's death
And the great care of goods at random left
Drew me from kind embracements of my spouse:
From whom my absence was not six months old
Before herself, almost at fainting under
The pleasing punishment that women bear,
Had made provision for her following me
And soon and safe arrived where I was.
There had she not been long, but she became
A joyful mother of two goodly sons;
And, which was strange, the one so like the other,
As could not be distinguish'd but by names.
That very hour, and in the self-same inn,
A meaner woman was delivered
Of such a burden, male twins, both alike:
Those, -- for their parents were exceeding poor, --
I bought and brought up to attend my sons.
My wife, not meanly proud of two such boys,
Made daily motions for our home return:
Unwilling I agreed. Alas! too soon,
We came aboard.
A league from Epidamnum had we sail'd,
Before the always wind-obeying deep
Gave any tragic instance of our harm:
But longer did we not retain much hope;
For what obscured light the heavens did grant
Did but convey unto our fearful minds
A doubtful warrant of immediate death;
Which though myself would gladly have embraced,
Yet the incessant weepings of my wife,
Weeping before for what she saw must come,
And piteous plainings of the pretty babes,
That mourn'd for fashion, ignorant what to fear,
Forced me to seek delays for them and me.
And this it was, for other means was none:
The sailors sought for safety by our boat,
And left the ship, then sinking-ripe, to us:
My wife, more careful for the latter-born,
Had fasten'd him unto a small spare mast,
Such as seafaring men provide for storms;
To him one of the other twins was bound,
Whilst I had been like heedful of the other:
The children thus disposed, my wife and I,
Fixing our eyes on whom our care was fix'd,
Fasten'd ourselves at either end the mast;
And floating straight, obedient to the stream,
Was carried towards Corinth, as we thought.
At length the sun, gazing upon the earth,
Dispersed those vapours that offended us;
And by the benefit of his wished light,
The seas wax'd calm, and we discovered
Two ships from far making amain to us,
Of Corinth that, of Epidaurus this:
But ere they came, -- O, let me say no more!
Gather the sequel by that went before.
DUKE SOLINUS
Nay, forward, old man; do not break off so;
For we may pity, though not pardon thee.
AEGEON
O, had the gods done so, I had not now
Worthily term'd them merciless to us!
For, ere the ships could meet by twice five leagues,
We were encounterd by a mighty rock;
Which being violently borne upon,
Our helpful ship was splitted in the midst;
So that, in this unjust divorce of us,
Fortune had left to both of us alike
What to delight in, what to sorrow for.
Her part, poor soul! seeming as burdened
With lesser weight but not with lesser woe,
Was carried with more speed before the wind;
And in our sight they three were taken up
By fishermen of Corinth, as we thought.
At length, another ship had seized on us;
And, knowing whom it was their hap to save,
Gave healthful welcome to their shipwreck'd guests;
And would have reft the fishers of their prey,
Had not their bark been very slow of sail;
And therefore homeward did they bend their course.
Thus have you heard me sever'd from my bliss;
That by misfortunes was my life prolong'd,
To tell sad stories of my own mishaps.
DUKE SOLINUS
And for the sake of them thou sorrowest for,
Do me the favour to dilate at full
What hath befall'n of them and thee till now.
AEGEON
My youngest boy, and yet my eldest care,
At eighteen years became inquisitive
After his brother: and importuned me
That his attendant -- so his case was like,
Reft of his brother, but retain'd his name --
Might bear him company in the quest of him:
Whom whilst I labour'd of a love to see,
I hazarded the loss of whom I loved.
Five summers have I spent in furthest Greece,
Roaming clean through the bounds of Asia,
And, coasting homeward, came to Ephesus;
Hopeless to find, yet loath to leave unsought
Or that or any place that harbours men.
But here must end the story of my life;
And happy were I in my timely death,
Could all my travels warrant me they live.
DUKE SOLINUS
Hapless AEgeon, whom the fates have mark'd
To bear the extremity of dire mishap!
Now, trust me, were it not against our laws,
Against my crown, my oath, my dignity,
Which princes, would they, may not disannul,
My soul would sue as advocate for thee.
But, though thou art adjudged to the death
And passed sentence may not be recall'd
But to our honour's great disparagement,
Yet I will favour thee in what I can.
Therefore, merchant, I'll limit thee this day
To seek thy life by beneficial help:
Try all the friends thou hast in Ephesus;
Beg thou, or borrow, to make up the sum,
And live; if no, then thou art doom'd to die.
Gaoler, take him to thy custody.
Gaoler
I will, my lord.
AEGEON
Hopeless and helpless doth AEgeon wend,
But to procrastinate his lifeless end.
[Exeunt]
[Exeunt]
13 July, 2007
Anonymous said...
Chapter 1
CHAPTER I.
Sketch of my Parentage. -- Early separation from my Mother. -- Hard Fare. -- First Experiments at running away. -- Earnest longing for Freedom. -- Abhorrent nature of Slavery.
I was born May 1815, of a slave mother, in Shelby County, Kentucky, and was claimed as the property of David White Esq. He came into possession of my mother long before I was born. I was brought up in the Counties of Shelby, Henry, Oldham, and Trimble. Or, more correctly speaking, in the above counties, I may safely say, I was flogged up; for where I should have received moral, mental, and religious instruction, I received stripes without number, the object of which was to degrade and keep me in subordination. I can truly say, that I drank deeply of the bitter cup of suffering and woe. I have been drag-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-014-
ged down to the lowest depths of human degradation and wretchedness, by Slaveholders.
My mother was known by the name of Milldred Jackson. She is the mother of seven slaves only, all being sons, of whom I am the eldest. She was also so fortunate or unfortunate, as to have some of what is called the slaveholding blood flowing in her veins. I know not how much; but not enough to prevent her children though fathered by slaveholders, from being bought and sold in the slave markets of the South. It is almost impossible for slaves to give a correct account of their male parentage. All that I know about it is, that my mother informed me that my fathers name was James Bibb. He was doubtless one of the present Bibb family of Kentucky; but I have no personal knowledge of him at all, for he died before my recollection.Chapter 1
CHAPTER I.
Sketch of my Parentage. -- Early separation from my Mother. -- Hard Fare. -- First Experiments at running away. -- Earnest longing for Freedom. -- Abhorrent nature of Slavery.
I was born May 1815, of a slave mother, in Shelby County, Kentucky, and was claimed as the property of David White Esq. He came into possession of my mother long before I was born. I was brought up in the Counties of Shelby, Henry, Oldham, and Trimble. Or, more correctly speaking, in the above counties, I may safely say, I was flogged up; for where I should have received moral, mental, and religious instruction, I received stripes without number, the object of which was to degrade and keep me in subordination. I can truly say, that I drank deeply of the bitter cup of suffering and woe. I have been drag-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-014-
ged down to the lowest depths of human degradation and wretchedness, by Slaveholders.
My mother was known by the name of Milldred Jackson. She is the mother of seven slaves only, all being sons, of whom I am the eldest. She was also so fortunate or unfortunate, as to have some of what is called the slaveholding blood flowing in her veins. I know not how much; but not enough to prevent her children though fathered by slaveholders, from being bought and sold in the slave markets of the South. It is almost impossible for slaves to give a correct account of their male parentage. All that I know about it is, that my mother informed me that my fathers name was James Bibb. He was doubtless one of the present Bibb family of Kentucky; but I have no personal knowledge of him at all, for he died before my recollection.
The first time I was separated from my mother, I was young and small. I knew nothing of my condition then as a slave. I was living with Mr. White whose wife died and left him a widower with one little girl, who was said to be the legitimate owner of my mother, and all her children. This girl was also my playmate when we were children.
I was taken away from my mother, and hired out to labor for various persons, eight or ten years in succession; and all my wages were expended for the education of Harriet White, my playmate. It was then my sorrows and sufferings commenced. It was then I first commenced seeing and feeling that I was a wretched slave, compelled to work under the lash without wages, and often without
29 July, 2007
There was a story in the Snooze the other day that said the graffiti vandal who was writing Zink on buildings and businesses was caught red-handed.
He's a 20-year-old? Geez, and here I was blaming teens.
Okay, he has to be prosecuted under the law, but if that wasn't a consideration, what do you think suitable punishment would be?
How about he does some jail time and also is sentenced to go around to schools telling kids how stupid he is?
BTW, congrats to those in Monroe who were sharp-eyed enough to spot this critter and blow the whistle. That's community spirit personified.
posted by The Observer at 11:45 PM on Jul 27, 2007
A rising clamor
Some of the commenters on this blog have been calling for me to screen or censor the comments.
I can do this, but I don't want to.
But I will if I have to.
What is strange about this is that if I start to do that, the people who are forcing me to do it will no longer be able to comment.
What I can't figure out is what purpose they think they might be serving.
If they think posting long excerpts from the Old Testament or dissertations on communism (I actually found that quite interesting) somehow will corrupt the blog or discourage posters, they've already been proven wrong.
In the past, I've pleaded for commenters to keep their comments clean. Let's face it, a comment can be vile and evil, but still avoid language that might give some kid who stumbled upon it an education he doesn't really want or need. Not everyone has responded to that plea. So I'm considering making the move to bring the blog to a bit higher level.
Everybody in favor, say aye.
This might even take this blog back to how it all began -- with me making passing comments to the entertainment or irritation of a few who visited regularly.
A while back someone put a link to this site on another forum widely accessed by the general public. I thought that would be a bad move. It's been bad and good.
But I think the blog can better be a force for good if content now is screened by my good filter.
That means it will be bad for a lot of people.
But what it comes down to is that this blog really is mostly about me anyway. And if I start to censor, it really will be all about me.
So should I pull the trigger because of a few morons?
posted by The Observer at 7/23/2007 10:22:00 AM 12 comments
Thursday, July 19, 2007
A hint of things to come?
I see where a $21,000 grant has been approved to do more research on where the significant points of the River Raisin Battlefield might lie.
The work will look at areas outside some of the portions already studied.
That's significant in itself, but what might be more significant is that the grant was from the National Park Service.
Does that mean the chances are better that the site will eventually be declared a National Historic Park?
I hope so.
Even if it's not, doesn't the site look a lot better since that old paper plant was knocked down? That definitely was an improvement to the city's looks.
posted by The Observer at 7/19/2007 09:02:00 AM 21 comments
Thursday, July 12, 2007
Okay, so the city is twisted
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 7/12/2007 01:33:00 PM 68 comments
Sunday, July 08, 2007
Is city a little twisted?
One of the commenters to the previous post said that this blog kind of shows the slimy underbelly of a snake of a city.
He or she feels the blog is a poor reflection of the town.
Another commenter said I should "pull the plug" on the blog.
It's something I've been considering for some time partly because city elections are drawing near and things will get uglier.
This blog has become a mystery to me. It began and continues to be my ramblings, more or less.
I think some of the commenters remarks have been nothing short of brilliant.
Others are as coarse and common as they come.
What I can't figure out is why there's so much venom vented here.
I would guess anyone who even bothers to post remarks here cares somewhat about their community. But it's pretty apparent that it goes beyond that. There's a lot of hate and vindictiveness.
I continue to be amazed at the Compora-Smith dialogue. Why does this matter?
Councilwoman Compora was elected to city council just like everyone else on council. Making nasty remarks about her here won't determine whether she gets re-elected. How well she represents her constituents will determine whether she has a chance at re-election.
David Smith will probably continue to comment on city issues -- heck, he has his own Web site to vent on. Bashing Smith isn't going to make him go away and, he too will be judged by his constituency.
My guess is that Compora on council is just trying to irritate and embarrass fellow councilmembers who she has little regard for in hopes of seeing them get voted off the council.
My guess is what she says at council is only a small part of what she tells voters in her neighborhood.
My guess is that her performance on city council is being both jeered and cheered by different populations. If she doesn't get re-elected, she'll probably still have a lot to say at council meetings. If she does get re-elected, she'll have even more to say.
The same probably applies to Smith.
Obviously they have some personal animosities. SO WHAT!
If people who contribute to this blog really enjoy this nonproductive bashing, maybe someone should just start a blog of their own dedicated to that topic.
As far as I can tell, this weird feud isn't helping the city and, I agree, is probably hurting it.
Having said that, let see if I can turn the topic a little.
First, someone said John Patterson was wasting taxpayer dollars by having a laser show downtown. If the tourism bureau paid for it, it's not taxpayer dollars that paid for it, it's revenue from visitors to the area who use hotels and motels in the area. It's a fee attached to their room bill.
Second, I was wondering how people feel about holding the fireworks at the state park. I've heard some some people who were at the show that they liked it better at the fairgrounds because it was easy to get in and out and they didn't have to pay a park entrance fee.
Does anyone have strong feelings about this?
posted by The Observer at 7/08/2007 12:59:00 PM 59 comments
Monday, July 02, 2007
City study a little twisted?
I caught bits and pieces of that presentation on the city operational study.
Is it just me or did anyone think that the study had a little too much anti-union, pro-privatization spin?
It seemed like every 10th sentence out of the consultant's mouth mentioned stuff about conciliatory attitudes and outsourcing. While those tactics could help, why couldn't he just have highlighted areas of high cost and inefficiency and let the the city figure out what alternatives it could explore? Maybe it's just me.
Anybody else get these strange vibes?
posted by The Observer at 7/02/2007 01:35:00 PM 34 comments
About Me
Name: The Observer
View my complete profile
Links
Monroe County Library System
eMonroe.com
The Onion
Monroe Evening News
The Adrian Insider
Previous Posts
Zink caught?
Let's not pity Patterson
A rising clamor
A hint of things to come?
Okay, so the city is twisted
Is city a little twisted?
City study a little twisted?
A banner day in Monroe
Graffiti again
I'm all for July 4, but ...
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A rising clamor
Some of the commenters on this blog have been calling for me to screen or censor the comments.
I can do this, but I don't want to.
But I will if I have to.
What is strange about this is that if I start to do that, the people who are forcing me to do it will no longer be able to comment.
What I can't figure out is what purpose they think they might be serving.
If they think posting long excerpts from the Old Testament or dissertations on communism (I actually found that quite interesting) somehow will corrupt the blog or discourage posters, they've already been proven wrong.
In the past, I've pleaded for commenters to keep their comments clean. Let's face it, a comment can be vile and evil, but still avoid language that might give some kid who stumbled upon it an education he doesn't really want or need. Not everyone has responded to that plea. So I'm considering making the move to bring the blog to a bit higher level.
Everybody in favor, say aye.
This might even take this blog back to how it all began -- with me making passing comments to the entertainment or irritation of a few who visited regularly.
A while back someone put a link to this site on another forum widely accessed by the general public. I thought that would be a bad move. It's been bad and good.
But I think the blog can better be a force for good if content now is screened by my good filter.
That means it will be bad for a lot of people.
But what it comes down to is that this blog really is mostly about me anyway. And if I start to censor, it really will be all about me.
So should I pull the trigger because of a few morons?
posted by The Observer at 7/23/2007 10:22:00 AM 12 comments
Thursday, July 19, 2007
A hint of things to come?
I see where a $21,000 grant has been approved to do more research on where the significant points of the River Raisin Battlefield might lie.
The work will look at areas outside some of the portions already studied.
That's significant in itself, but what might be more significant is that the grant was from the National Park Service.
Does that mean the chances are better that the site will eventually be declared a National Historic Park?
I hope so.
Even if it's not, doesn't the site look a lot better since that old paper plant was knocked down? That definitely was an improvement to the city's looks.
posted by The Observer at 7/19/2007 09:02:00 AM 21 comments
Thursday, July 12, 2007
Okay, so the city is twisted
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 7/12/2007 01:33:00 PM 68 comments
Sunday, July 08, 2007
Is city a little twisted?
One of the commenters to the previous post said that this blog kind of shows the slimy underbelly of a snake of a city.
He or she feels the blog is a poor reflection of the town.
Another commenter said I should "pull the plug" on the blog.
It's something I've been considering for some time partly because city elections are drawing near and things will get uglier.
This blog has become a mystery to me. It began and continues to be my ramblings, more or less.
I think some of the commenters remarks have been nothing short of brilliant.
Others are as coarse and common as they come.
What I can't figure out is why there's so much venom vented here.
I would guess anyone who even bothers to post remarks here cares somewhat about their community. But it's pretty apparent that it goes beyond that. There's a lot of hate and vindictiveness.
I continue to be amazed at the Compora-Smith dialogue. Why does this matter?
Councilwoman Compora was elected to city council just like everyone else on council. Making nasty remarks about her here won't determine whether she gets re-elected. How well she represents her constituents will determine whether she has a chance at re-election.
David Smith will probably continue to comment on city issues -- heck, he has his own Web site to vent on. Bashing Smith isn't going to make him go away and, he too will be judged by his constituency.
My guess is that Compora on council is just trying to irritate and embarrass fellow councilmembers who she has little regard for in hopes of seeing them get voted off the council.
My guess is what she says at council is only a small part of what she tells voters in her neighborhood.
My guess is that her performance on city council is being both jeered and cheered by different populations. If she doesn't get re-elected, she'll probably still have a lot to say at council meetings. If she does get re-elected, she'll have even more to say.
The same probably applies to Smith.
Obviously they have some personal animosities. SO WHAT!
If people who contribute to this blog really enjoy this nonproductive bashing, maybe someone should just start a blog of their own dedicated to that topic.
As far as I can tell, this weird feud isn't helping the city and, I agree, is probably hurting it.
Having said that, let see if I can turn the topic a little.
First, someone said John Patterson was wasting taxpayer dollars by having a laser show downtown. If the tourism bureau paid for it, it's not taxpayer dollars that paid for it, it's revenue from visitors to the area who use hotels and motels in the area. It's a fee attached to their room bill.
Second, I was wondering how people feel about holding the fireworks at the state park. I've heard some some people who were at the show that they liked it better at the fairgrounds because it was easy to get in and out and they didn't have to pay a park entrance fee.
Does anyone have strong feelings about this?
posted by The Observer at 7/08/2007 12:59:00 PM 59 comments
Monday, July 02, 2007
City study a little twisted?
I caught bits and pieces of that presentation on the city operational study.
Is it just me or did anyone think that the study had a little too much anti-union, pro-privatization spin?
It seemed like every 10th sentence out of the consultant's mouth mentioned stuff about conciliatory attitudes and outsourcing. While those tactics could help, why couldn't he just have highlighted areas of high cost and inefficiency and let the the city figure out what alternatives it could explore? Maybe it's just me.
Anybody else get these strange vibes?
posted by The Observer at 7/02/2007 01:35:00 PM 34 comments
About Me
Name: The Observer
View my complete profile
Links
Monroe County Library System
eMonroe.com
The Onion
Monroe Evening News
The Adrian Insider
Previous Posts
Zink caught?
Let's not pity Patterson
A rising clamor
A hint of things to come?
Okay, so the city is twisted
Is city a little twisted?
City study a little twisted?
A banner day in Monroe
Graffiti again
I'm all for July 4, but ...
Archives
01/01/2006 - 02/01/2006
02/01/2006 - 03/01/2006
03/01/2006 - 04/01/2006
04/01/2006 - 05/01/2006
05/01/2006 - 06/01/2006
06/01/2006 - 07/01/2006
07/01/2006 - 08/01/2006
08/01/2006 - 09/01/2006
09/01/2006 - 10/01/2006
10/01/2006 - 11/01/2006
11/01/2006 - 12/01/2006
12/01/2006 - 01/01/2007
01/01/2007 - 02/01/2007
02/01/2007 - 03/01/2007
03/01/2007 - 04/01/2007
04/01/2007 - 05/01/2007
05/01/2007 - 06/01/2007
06/01/2007 - 07/01/2007
07/01/2007 - 08/01/2007
A rising clamor
Some of the commenters on this blog have been calling for me to screen or censor the comments.
I can do this, but I don't want to.
But I will if I have to.
What is strange about this is that if I start to do that, the people who are forcing me to do it will no longer be able to comment.
What I can't figure out is what purpose they think they might be serving.
If they think posting long excerpts from the Old Testament or dissertations on communism (I actually found that quite interesting) somehow will corrupt the blog or discourage posters, they've already been proven wrong.
In the past, I've pleaded for commenters to keep their comments clean. Let's face it, a comment can be vile and evil, but still avoid language that might give some kid who stumbled upon it an education he doesn't really want or need. Not everyone has responded to that plea. So I'm considering making the move to bring the blog to a bit higher level.
Everybody in favor, say aye.
This might even take this blog back to how it all began -- with me making passing comments to the entertainment or irritation of a few who visited regularly.
A while back someone put a link to this site on another forum widely accessed by the general public. I thought that would be a bad move. It's been bad and good.
But I think the blog can better be a force for good if content now is screened by my good filter.
That means it will be bad for a lot of people.
But what it comes down to is that this blog really is mostly about me anyway. And if I start to censor, it really will be all about me.
So should I pull the trigger because of a few morons?
posted by The Observer at 7/23/2007 10:22:00 AM 12 comments
Thursday, July 19, 2007
A hint of things to come?
I see where a $21,000 grant has been approved to do more research on where the significant points of the River Raisin Battlefield might lie.
The work will look at areas outside some of the portions already studied.
That's significant in itself, but what might be more significant is that the grant was from the National Park Service.
Does that mean the chances are better that the site will eventually be declared a National Historic Park?
I hope so.
Even if it's not, doesn't the site look a lot better since that old paper plant was knocked down? That definitely was an improvement to the city's looks.
posted by The Observer at 7/19/2007 09:02:00 AM 21 comments
Thursday, July 12, 2007
Okay, so the city is twisted
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 7/12/2007 01:33:00 PM 68 comments
Sunday, July 08, 2007
Is city a little twisted?
One of the commenters to the previous post said that this blog kind of shows the slimy underbelly of a snake of a city.
He or she feels the blog is a poor reflection of the town.
Another commenter said I should "pull the plug" on the blog.
It's something I've been considering for some time partly because city elections are drawing near and things will get uglier.
This blog has become a mystery to me. It began and continues to be my ramblings, more or less.
I think some of the commenters remarks have been nothing short of brilliant.
Others are as coarse and common as they come.
What I can't figure out is why there's so much venom vented here.
I would guess anyone who even bothers to post remarks here cares somewhat about their community. But it's pretty apparent that it goes beyond that. There's a lot of hate and vindictiveness.
I continue to be amazed at the Compora-Smith dialogue. Why does this matter?
Councilwoman Compora was elected to city council just like everyone else on council. Making nasty remarks about her here won't determine whether she gets re-elected. How well she represents her constituents will determine whether she has a chance at re-election.
David Smith will probably continue to comment on city issues -- heck, he has his own Web site to vent on. Bashing Smith isn't going to make him go away and, he too will be judged by his constituency.
My guess is that Compora on council is just trying to irritate and embarrass fellow councilmembers who she has little regard for in hopes of seeing them get voted off the council.
My guess is what she says at council is only a small part of what she tells voters in her neighborhood.
My guess is that her performance on city council is being both jeered and cheered by different populations. If she doesn't get re-elected, she'll probably still have a lot to say at council meetings. If she does get re-elected, she'll have even more to say.
The same probably applies to Smith.
Obviously they have some personal animosities. SO WHAT!
If people who contribute to this blog really enjoy this nonproductive bashing, maybe someone should just start a blog of their own dedicated to that topic.
As far as I can tell, this weird feud isn't helping the city and, I agree, is probably hurting it.
Having said that, let see if I can turn the topic a little.
First, someone said John Patterson was wasting taxpayer dollars by having a laser show downtown. If the tourism bureau paid for it, it's not taxpayer dollars that paid for it, it's revenue from visitors to the area who use hotels and motels in the area. It's a fee attached to their room bill.
Second, I was wondering how people feel about holding the fireworks at the state park. I've heard some some people who were at the show that they liked it better at the fairgrounds because it was easy to get in and out and they didn't have to pay a park entrance fee.
Does anyone have strong feelings about this?
posted by The Observer at 7/08/2007 12:59:00 PM 59 comments
Monday, July 02, 2007
City study a little twisted?
I caught bits and pieces of that presentation on the city operational study.
Is it just me or did anyone think that the study had a little too much anti-union, pro-privatization spin?
It seemed like every 10th sentence out of the consultant's mouth mentioned stuff about conciliatory attitudes and outsourcing. While those tactics could help, why couldn't he just have highlighted areas of high cost and inefficiency and let the the city figure out what alternatives it could explore? Maybe it's just me.
Anybody else get these strange vibes?
posted by The Observer at 7/02/2007 01:35:00 PM 34 comments
About Me
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View my complete profile
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Is city a little twisted?
City study a little twisted?
A banner day in Monroe
Graffiti again
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A rising clamor
Some of the commenters on this blog have been calling for me to screen or censor the comments.
I can do this, but I don't want to.
But I will if I have to.
What is strange about this is that if I start to do that, the people who are forcing me to do it will no longer be able to comment.
What I can't figure out is what purpose they think they might be serving.
If they think posting long excerpts from the Old Testament or dissertations on communism (I actually found that quite interesting) somehow will corrupt the blog or discourage posters, they've already been proven wrong.
In the past, I've pleaded for commenters to keep their comments clean. Let's face it, a comment can be vile and evil, but still avoid language that might give some kid who stumbled upon it an education he doesn't really want or need. Not everyone has responded to that plea. So I'm considering making the move to bring the blog to a bit higher level.
Everybody in favor, say aye.
This might even take this blog back to how it all began -- with me making passing comments to the entertainment or irritation of a few who visited regularly.
A while back someone put a link to this site on another forum widely accessed by the general public. I thought that would be a bad move. It's been bad and good.
But I think the blog can better be a force for good if content now is screened by my good filter.
That means it will be bad for a lot of people.
But what it comes down to is that this blog really is mostly about me anyway. And if I start to censor, it really will be all about me.
So should I pull the trigger because of a few morons?
posted by The Observer at 7/23/2007 10:22:00 AM 12 comments
Thursday, July 19, 2007
A hint of things to come?
I see where a $21,000 grant has been approved to do more research on where the significant points of the River Raisin Battlefield might lie.
The work will look at areas outside some of the portions already studied.
That's significant in itself, but what might be more significant is that the grant was from the National Park Service.
Does that mean the chances are better that the site will eventually be declared a National Historic Park?
I hope so.
Even if it's not, doesn't the site look a lot better since that old paper plant was knocked down? That definitely was an improvement to the city's looks.
posted by The Observer at 7/19/2007 09:02:00 AM 21 comments
Thursday, July 12, 2007
Okay, so the city is twisted
Yeah, I think that last exchange of comments in the post below confirmed my suspicions that something bad is in some people's water (or genes) here. I think one of our regular contributors had a nervous breakdown.
But moving along, just to set things straight, the first and only time I mentioned Smith and Compora in a post in about two years now was the last post. I mentioned it because the debate is such a futile exercise and hoped we could move beyond it. Guess not. So we're twisted. Let's all resolve to live with that.
To further clarify things, I wish to state that familiarity seems to be breeding contempt. All this talk about Monroe going down the tube is nuts. Most reasonable people, even those who don't agree, probably would agree that Monroe is more vibrant than it's been in 20 years, despite a rotten and eroding state economy.
Sure, the city's not making as much revenue and there's a lot of rental housing, but it's obvious that some posters here don't get out and about much. Maybe they feel trapped in Monroe.
I can give you a whole list of places that make Monroe look like paradise -- we can start with Flint, or Adrian. Cripe, ask George Brown.
As for the election, I have a plan.
No I will not be running for office.
Al Cappuccilli will not be running for office.
Bill Burkett will run for mayor.
John Iacoangeli will run for mayor.
Mark Worrell will run for mayor.
What probably needs to happen is for a deal to be cut among these three.
I would suggest Iacoangeli run for council. This will give Worrell a decent shot at mayor and take Paisley out of the picture.
You'll end up with a better balance on council and someone as mayor who might be a little more talented at compromise.
posted by The Observer at 7/12/2007 01:33:00 PM 68 comments
Sunday, July 08, 2007
Is city a little twisted?
One of the commenters to the previous post said that this blog kind of shows the slimy underbelly of a snake of a city.
He or she feels the blog is a poor reflection of the town.
Another commenter said I should "pull the plug" on the blog.
It's something I've been considering for some time partly because city elections are drawing near and things will get uglier.
This blog has become a mystery to me. It began and continues to be my ramblings, more or less.
I think some of the commenters remarks have been nothing short of brilliant.
Others are as coarse and common as they come.
What I can't figure out is why there's so much venom vented here.
I would guess anyone who even bothers to post remarks here cares somewhat about their community. But it's pretty apparent that it goes beyond that. There's a lot of hate and vindictiveness.
I continue to be amazed at the Compora-Smith dialogue. Why does this matter?
Councilwoman Compora was elected to city council just like everyone else on council. Making nasty remarks about her here won't determine whether she gets re-elected. How well she represents her constituents will determine whether she has a chance at re-election.
David Smith will probably continue to comment on city issues -- heck, he has his own Web site to vent on. Bashing Smith isn't going to make him go away and, he too will be judged by his constituency.
My guess is that Compora on council is just trying to irritate and embarrass fellow councilmembers who she has little regard for in hopes of seeing them get voted off the council.
My guess is what she says at council is only a small part of what she tells voters in her neighborhood.
My guess is that her performance on city council is being both jeered and cheered by different populations. If she doesn't get re-elected, she'll probably still have a lot to say at council meetings. If she does get re-elected, she'll have even more to say.
The same probably applies to Smith.
Obviously they have some personal animosities. SO WHAT!
If people who contribute to this blog really enjoy this nonproductive bashing, maybe someone should just start a blog of their own dedicated to that topic.
As far as I can tell, this weird feud isn't helping the city and, I agree, is probably hurting it.
Having said that, let see if I can turn the topic a little.
First, someone said John Patterson was wasting taxpayer dollars by having a laser show downtown. If the tourism bureau paid for it, it's not taxpayer dollars that paid for it, it's revenue from visitors to the area who use hotels and motels in the area. It's a fee attached to their room bill.
Second, I was wondering how people feel about holding the fireworks at the state park. I've heard some some people who were at the show that they liked it better at the fairgrounds because it was easy to get in and out and they didn't have to pay a park entrance fee.
Does anyone have strong feelings about this?
posted by The Observer at 7/08/2007 12:59:00 PM 59 comments
Monday, July 02, 2007
City study a little twisted?
I caught bits and pieces of that presentation on the city operational study.
Is it just me or did anyone think that the study had a little too much anti-union, pro-privatization spin?
It seemed like every 10th sentence out of the consultant's mouth mentioned stuff about conciliatory attitudes and outsourcing. While those tactics could help, why couldn't he just have highlighted areas of high cost and inefficiency and let the the city figure out what alternatives it could explore? Maybe it's just me.
Anybody else get these strange vibes?
posted by The Observer at 7/02/2007 01:35:00 PM 34 comments
About Me
Name: The Observer
View my complete profile
Links
Monroe County Library System
eMonroe.com
The Onion
Monroe Evening News
The Adrian Insider
Previous Posts
Zink caught?
Let's not pity Patterson
A rising clamor
A hint of things to come?
Okay, so the city is twisted
Is city a little twisted?
City study a little twisted?
A banner day in Monroe
Graffiti again
I'm all for July 4, but ...
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CHAPTER 1261
CONSTRUCTION OF LANGUAGE AND DEFINITIONS
1261.01 Definitions.
For the purpose of this Ordinance, certain words and terms are herewith defined.
Access Management. A technique to improve traffic operations and safety along a major roadway through the control of driveway locations and design; consideration of the relationship of traffic activity for properties adjacent to, and across from, one another; and the promotion of alternatives to direct access.
Accessory Building or Structure. An unattached building or structure, or a portion thereof, that is supplementary and/or subordinate to a principal building or structure on the same lot and that is occupied or devoted exclusively to an accessory use.
Accessory Use. A use which is clearly incidental to, customarily found in connection with, and (except in the case of accessory off-street parking or loading spaces) located on, the same zoning lot as the principal use to which it is related. When the word accessory is used in this text, it shall have the same meaning as accessory use. Accessory use shall include, but it is not limited to, uses such as those that follow:
(a) Residential accommodations for servants and/or caretakers within the principal building.
(b) Swimming pools for the use of the occupants of a residence or their guests.
(c) Domestic storage in a barn, shed, tool room or similar accessory building or other structure.
(d) Storage of merchandise normally carried in stock in connection with a business or industrial use, unless such storage is excluded in the applicable district regulations.
(e) Storage of goods used in, or produced by, industrial uses or related activities, unless such storage is excluded in the applicable district regulations.
(f) Accessory off-street parking spaces, open or enclosed, subject to the accessory off-street parking regulations for the district in which the zoning lot is located.
(g) Uses clearly incidental to a principal use such as offices of an industrial or commercial use within an industrial or commercial building, or a small area devoted to accessory sales or display in an office or industrial use.
(h) Accessory signs, subject to the sign regulations for the district in which the zoning lot is located.
Addition. An extension or increase in the floor area or the height of a building or structure, such as a parking lot.
Administrative Site Plan Review Committee. A group of individuals designated by the City Manager and/or Zoning Administrator who shall conduct administrative reviews of site plans. [MODIFIED]
Adult Regulated Use. An establishment which is required to exclude, and/or does exclude, minors by virtue of age and are further defined as follows: [MODIFIED]
(a) Adult Book or Supply Store. An establishment having twenty percent (20) or more of its stock-in-trade or its sales devoted to the distribution, display, or storage of books, magazines, and other periodicals and/or photographs, drawings, slides, films, video tapes, recording tapes, and/or novelty items which are distinguished or characterized by their emphasis on matters depicting, describing, or relating to specified sexual activities or specified anatomical areas.
(b) Adult Motion Picture Theater, Adult Live Stage Performing Theater. An enclosed building with a capacity of fifty (50) or more persons used for presenting material distinguished or characterized by an emphasis on matter depicting, describing or relating to specified sexual activities or specified anatomical areas, for observation by patrons therein. Such establishment is customarily not open to the public generally, but only to one (1) or more classes of the public, excluding any minor by reason of age.
(c) Adult Cabaret. An establishment which features any of the following: topless dancers and/or bottomless dancers, go-go dancers, strippers, male and/or female impersonators or similar entertainers, or topless and/or bottomless waitpersons or employees, or any other form of nude or partially nude service or entertainment.
(d) Adult Physical Culture Establishment. An "Adult Physical Culture Establishment" is any establishment club or business by whatever name designated, which offers or advertises, or is equipped or arranged so as to provide as part of its services, massages, body rubs, alcohol rubs, physical stimulation, baths, or other similar treatment by any person. The following uses shall not be included with the definition of any adult physical culture establishment:
(1) Establishments which routinely provide such services by a licensed physician, a licensed chiropractor, a licensed osteopath, a licensed physical therapist, a licensed practical nurse, or any other similarly licensed medical professional;
(2) Electrolysis treatment by a licensed operator of electrolysis equipment;
(3) Continuing instruction in material or performing arts or in organized athletic activities;
(4) Hospitals, nursing homes, medical clinics or medical offices; and
(5) Barber shops or beauty parlors and/or salons that offer massage to the scalp, the face, or the neck and shoulders only.
(e) Body-Piercing. Body-piercing means the perforation of human tissue other than an ear for a non-medical purpose.
(f) Body-Piercing Establishment. An establishment where the perforation of human tissue other than an ear for a non-medical purpose is performed, whether or not it is in exchange for compensation or any form of consideration.
(g) Brand or Branding. The creation of a permanent mark made on human tissue by burning with a hot iron or other instrument.
(h) Specified Anatomical Areas. Specified anatomical areas means and includes any one (1) or more of the following: (a) less than completely covered human genitals, pubic region, buttocks, anus, or female breasts below a point immediately above the top of the areola; or (b) human male genitals in a discernible turgid state, even if completely and opaquely covered.
(i) Specified Sexual Activities. Specified sexual activities means and includes any one (1) or more of the following: (a) the fondling or erotic touching of human genitals, pubic region, buttocks, anus or female breasts; (b) human sex acts, normal or perverted, actual or simulated, including but not limited to intercourse, oral copulation, and sodomy; (c) human masturbation, actual or simulated; (d) human excretory functions as part of, or as related to, any one of the activities described above, and (e) physical violence, bondage, mutilation, or rape, actual or simulated, as part of, or as related to, any of the activities described above.
(j) Tattoo Parlor. An establishment where persons are tattooed for consideration, other than by a licensed medical practitioner or cosmetologist; or any place where tattooing is regularly conducted whether or not it is in exchange for compensation.
(k) Tattoo, Tattooed, Tattooing. Any method of placing permanent designs, letters, scrolls, figures, symbols or any other marks upon or under the skin with ink or any other substance, by the aide of needles or any other instruments designed to touch or puncture the skin, resulting in either the coloration of the skin, or the production of scars or scarring, other than by branding.
Alley. A dedicated public way which affords only a secondary means of access to abutting property and which is not intended for general traffic circulation.
Alteration. Any change, addition or modification in construction or type of occupancy, any change in the structural members of a building, such as walls, partitions, columns, beams or girders, or any change which is referred to herein as altered or reconstructed. This definition excludes aesthetic changes to the building façade.
Animal. Any live being of the kingdom animalia, other than humans.
Animal, Domestic. A traditionally North American animal that has traditionally, through a long association with humans, lived in a state of dependence upon humans and have been traditionally kept as a tame, household pet such as dogs, cats, hamsters, gerbils, mice, nonbreeding (under human control) rabbits, parakeets, parrots, canaries, love birds, finches, noncarnivorous fish, nonpoisonous and nonconstricting reptiles (under three (3) feet in length) and nonpoisonous spiders.
Animal Hospital. A self-enclosed building wherein animals including domestic household pets and farm animals are given medical or surgical treatment and use as a boarding place for such animals limited to short-time boarding incidental to hospital use. Such hospitals include only those under direction of a licensed veterinarian registered in the State. Such animal hospitals shall be constructed in such a manner that noise and odor are not discernible beyond the property upon which it is located. [NEW]
Animal Shelter. A building supported by a governmental unit or agency or by a nonprofit corporation where domestic pets or other animals are kept because of requirements of public health officials, loss by owner, neglect or violation of a public law or ordinance. [NEW]
Animal, Wild or Exotic. Any animal not domesticated or tamed which is incapable, by its feral nature, of being completely domesticated and which is normally found in the wild, including, but not limited to, alligators, badgers, bears, beavers, bobcats, chinchilla, chipmunks, cougars, coyotes, crows, deer, doves, dog-wolves, eagles, elk, ferrets, foxes, gophers, grouse, hares, hawks, jaguars, kangaroos, lions, lynx, mink, muskrats, opossums, owls, partridges, peacocks, pheasants, porcupines, prairie dogs, quails, raccoons, skunks, squirrels, tigers, weasels, wild turkeys, wolverines, wolves and woodchucks, or any animal that has been bred to a wild animal. Poisonous, predatory animals and endangered species are included as well.
Antenna. Any exterior transmitting or receiving devise mounted on a tower, building or structure and used in communications that radiate or capture electromagnetic waves, digital signals, analog signals, radio frequencies (excluding radar signals), wireless telecommunications signals or other communication signals, but excluding facilities considered to be essential public services or facilities pre-empted from City regulation by applicable State, Federal Communication Commission (FCC) or other Federal laws or regulations.
Antenna Support Structure or Tower. Any structure that is designed and constructed primarily for the purpose of supporting one or more antennas for telephone, radio and similar communication purposes, including self-supporting lattice towers, guyed towers, or monopole towers. The term includes radio and television transmission towers, microwave towers, common-carrier towers, cellular telephone towers, alternative tower structures and the like. The term includes the structures and any support thereto. All such structures may be attached to the ground, attached to a roof or otherwise attached to a building.
Apartments. The dwelling units in a multiple dwelling as defined herein: [MODIFIED]
(a) Efficiency Unit. A dwelling unit consisting of not more than one (1) room, in addition to kitchen, dining and necessary sanitary facilities, and for the purpose of computing density, shall be considered as a one-room unit.
(b) One-Bedroom Unit. A dwelling unit consisting of not more than two (2) rooms, in addition to kitchen, dining and necessary sanitary facilities, and for the purpose of computing density, shall be considered as a two-room unit.
(c) Two-Bedroom Unit. A dwelling unit consisting of not more than three (3) rooms, in addition to kitchen, dining and necessary sanitary facilities, and for the purpose of computing density, shall be considered as a three-room unit.
(d) Three- or More Bedroom Unit. A dwelling unit wherein for each room in addition to the three (3) rooms permitted in a two-bedroom unit, and for the purpose of computing density, such three-bedroom unit shall be considered a four-room unit, and each increase in a bedroom over three (3) shall be an increase in the room count by one (1) over the four (4).
Appeal. To request a variance or waiver from the regulations of this Ordinance. [NEW]
Applicant (Petitioner or Developer). A natural person, firm, association, partnership, corporation, government agency or combination of any of them which may hold any recorded or unrecorded ownership interest in land and which divides land so as to constitute a subdivision as defined herein. This definition shall be construed to include any agent of the subdivider. The proprietor is also commonly referred to as the owner.
Arcade. Any place, premises, establishment, or room within a structure within which are located three (3) or more amusement devices. For purposes of this section, amusement devices shall mean any device, machine or apparatus operated by a patron who plays, exhibits, emits, produces or displays, entertainment or amusement in the form of a game, motion picture, music, performances or similar entertainment. The term does not include vending machines used to dispense foodstuffs, toys or other products for use and consumption, kiddy rides, jukeboxes, bowling alleys, or pool tables. [NEW]
Architectural Features. Architectural features of a building shall include but not be limited to cornices, eaves, gutters, belt courses, sills, lintels, bay windows, chimneys, and decorative ornaments. [NEW]
As-Built Plans. Revised construction plans in accordance with all approved field changes.
Assembly or Banquet or Dance Hall. A structure which provides rental space for such functions as, but not limited to: wedding parties, conferences, service club meetings and other similar gatherings, along with the catering of food services off the premises.
Automobile. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, automobile shall mean any vehicle including, by way of example, cars, trucks, vans, motorcycles, and the like. [NEW]
Automobile Convenience Mart. A place where gasoline, motor oil, lubricants, or other minor accessories are retailed directly to the public on the premises or in combination with the retailing of items typically found in a convenience market, carry-out restaurant or supermarket. [NEW]
Automobile Dealership. A building or premises used primarily for the sale of new or used automobiles. [NEW]
Automobile Filling Station. A place used for the retail sale and dispensing of fuel or lubricants together with the fixed equipment from which the fuel is dispensed directly into motor vehicles. Automobile filling stations may also incorporate additional uses as permitted and regulated by this Ordinance. [MODIFIED]
Automobile Repair Establishment, Major. An automotive repair establishment which may conduct activities defined herein as minor repairs and one (1) or more of the following: general repair, engine rebuilding, rebuilding or reconditioning of motor vehicles, collision service, such as body, frame or fender straightening and repair, overall painting and undercoating of automobiles, major overhauling of engines requiring removal of the cylinder-head or crank case pan, recapping or retreading of tires, steam cleaning and similar activities.
Automobile Repair Establishment, Minor. A building or premises used primarily to provide general maintenance on automobiles such as oil changes and lubrication; servicing and repair or replacement of spark plugs, batteries, pumps, belts, hoses, air filters, windshield wipers and distributors; detailing; replacement of mufflers and exhaust systems, brakes and shock absorbers; radiator cleaning and flushing; sale and installation of automobile accessories such as tires, radios and air conditioners; and wheel alignment, balancing and undercoating; but excluding any major mechanical repairs, collision work or painting. An automobile maintenance establishment may also sell gasoline, but is distinct from an automobile gasoline station (i.e. gas station without repair). [NEW]
Automobile Service Station. Building and premises where gasoline, oil, grease, batteries, tires, and automobile accessories are dispensed at retail cost and minor maintenance services and minor repairs may be provided.
Automobile Wash. Any building, structure or portion thereof, either as a principal or an accessory use, containing facilities for washing motor vehicles using production-line methods with a conveyor, blower, steam-cleaning device or other mechanical washing devices, and shall also include coin and attendant operated drive-through, automatic self-serve, track-mounted units and similar high-volume washing establishments, but shall not include hand-washing operations. An automobile wash may include accessory automobile detailing, upholstery cleaning or vacuuming.
[NEW]
(a) Automatic Wash. Any facility, its structures, accessory uses, or paved areas used wholly or partly to wash, clean and dry the exterior of automobiles, using conveyors to move the vehicle, or equipment that moved over or around the vehicle, or other automated equipment intended to mechanically wash such vehicles.
(b) Self-Service Wash. Any facility, its structures, accessory uses or paved areas used wholly or partly to wash, clean or dry the exterior of automobiles using hand-held equipment.
Basement. The portion of a building located partly below grade, but so located that the vertical distance from the average grade to the floor is greater than the vertical distance from the average grade to the ceiling, provided, however, that if the vertical distance from the average grade to the ceiling is five (5) feet or more, such basement shall be considered as a story.
[MODIFIED]
DETERMINING A BASEMENT
Bed-and-Breakfast Inn. A single family dwelling which is owner occupied or maintained by a resident manager and provides, for compensation, eight (8) or fewer sleeping rooms for transient guests for stays of short duration, and which provides breakfast for its guests at no additional cost.
Billiard (Pool) Hall. An establishment wherein the substantial or significant portion of all useable floor area is devoted to the use of pool or billiard tables. Such establishment may also include accessory food and drinking service.
Block. Property abutting one side of a street and lying between the two nearest intersecting streets, or between one intersecting street and a railroad right of way, unsubdivided acreage, a river or live stream, or between any of the foregoing and any other barrier to the continuity of development, or the corporate boundary lines of the City.
Boarding House. A dwelling where meals, or lodging and meals, are provided for compensation to three (3) or more persons by prearrangement for definite periods of not less than one week. A boarding house is to be distinguished from a hotel, motel, bed-and-breakfast inn or a nursing home.
Buildable Area. The space remaining on a lot after compliance with the minimum required setbacks of this Zoning Ordinance.
Building. Any structure, either temporary or permanent, having a roof supported by columns, walls or any other supports which is used for the purpose of housing, sheltering, storing or enclosing persons, animals or personal property, or carrying on business activities. This definition shall include tents, awnings, mobile homes or vehicles used for such purposes. When any portion of a building is completely separated from every other part of the building by division walls having no openings, each portion of such building shall be deemed a separate building.
If the average of A is equal to or less than ½ of B, or is less than 5’, then C is a basement.
If the average of A is greater than ½ of B, or A is 5’ or greater, than C is a story.
Building Code. The latest edition of the Michigan Building Code, or any other code adopted by the municipality.
Building Component. Any sub-system, sub-assembly or other system designed for use in, or as part of, a structure, which may include structural, electrical, mechanical, plumbing and fire protection systems and other systems affecting health and safety.
Building Envelope. The area of a lot which is defined by minimum setback and spacing requirements and within which building construction is permitted by this Zoning Ordinance. For condominium developments, the building envelope shall be illustrated on a site plan.
Building Height. The vertical distance from the average grade of the center of the front of the building to the highest point of the roof surface of a flat roof, to the deck line for a mansard roof, and to the mean height level between the eaves and ridge for hip, gabled and gambrel roofs.
[MODIFIED]
DETERMINING BUILDING HEIGHT
Building Line. A horizontal line generally parallel to a front, side or rear lot line which is located at the point of the principal building foundation nearest the front, side or rear lot line.
[MODIFIED]
DETERMINING BUILDING LINE
Building Official. The Building Official of the City of Monroe, as designated by Council, or his or her authorized representative.
Building Permit. The written authority issued by the Building Official permitting the construction, removal, moving, alteration or use of a building in conformity with the provisions of this Zoning Ordinance.
Building, Principal. A building in which is conducted the principal use of the lot on which it is situated.
Building Setback Line. The line established by the minimum required setbacks forming the area within a lot in which a building may be located.
[MODIFIED]
BUILDING SETBACKS
Building System. Plans, specifications and documentation for a system of pre-manufactured units or for a type or system of building components, which may include structural, electrical, mechanical, plumbing and fire protection systems and other systems affecting health and safety, including variations which are submitted as part of a building system.
Business Center. A grouping of two (2) or more business establishments on one or more parcels of property which may share parking and access and are linked architecturally or which otherwise present the appearance of a unified grouping of businesses. [MODIFIED]
Caliper. The diameter of a tree trunk measured as follows:
(a) Existing trees shall be measured at four and one-half (4.5) feet above the average surrounding grade;
(b) New trees shall be measured twelve (12) inches above the average surrounding grade after planting if the tree caliper is more than four (4) inches; and
(c) New trees measured six inches above the average surrounding grade, after planting, if the tree caliper is less than four (4) inches.
Carport. An automobile shelter with at least two sides open which may be either free-standing (detached) or formed by the extension of the roof from the side or rear of a dwelling. A detached carport shall conform to the setback requirements for a garage.
Change of Façade. A change of façade shall include but not be limited to architectural modifications to the exterior of a building such as building materials, bay windows, and decorative ornaments. This definition excludes any change, addition or modification in construction or change in the structural members of a building (i.e. alteration). [MODIFIED]
Children’s Institution. An orphanage, boarding home or other establishment for children wherein care, food and lodging are furnished, with or without charge, for five or more children under fifteen years of age living apart from their parents or guardians, excepting any home approved as a foster home, any home maintained by a person whom the children are related by blood or marriage and excepting hospitals and child care facilities.
Church or Temple. Any structure wherein persons regularly assemble for religious activity.
Citizens Planning Commission. The Citizens Planning Commission of the City of Monroe, appointed by Council.
Clear Vision Area. The clear vision area (sometimes called the "sight triangle") is a triangular-shaped area on corner lots. Objects shall not be allowed between the heights of three (3) feet and ten (10) feet above the road grade level so that drivers stopped at an intersection can see oncoming traffic. [NEW]
CLEAR VISION AREA
Clinic. An establishment where patients are examined and treated by physicians, dentists, veterinarians or members of similar professions. A clinic shall not include overnight boarding facilities. [MODIFIED]
Club. An organization of persons for the promulgation of an activity, but not for profit.
Columbarium. A structure designed for the purpose of storing the ashes of human remains that have been cremated. [NEW]
Commercial Vehicle. Any vehicle possessing commercial license plates, used for commercial purposes and in excess of one ton in gross vehicle weight, or having a length in excess of twenty-two (22) feet, excluding recreational vehicles, but including vehicles such as truck tractors, semitrailers (which include flat beds, stake beds, roll-off containers, tanker bodies, dump bodies and full or partial box-type enclosures), vending trucks such as ice cream, milk, bread, fruit or vending supply trucks, tow trucks, commercial hauling trucks, vehicle repair service trucks, and snow plowing trucks.
Community Garden. A community environmental education program operated by a non-profit society, and including the following features: a piece of land utilized by the society to produce food and flowers for the personal use of society members, and a community education program in place that encourages the involvement of schools, youth groups and citizens who do not have an assigned plot in gardening activities. [NEW]
Composting, Commercial. A business activity the primary function of which is to receive organic matter (such as leaves or food processing wastes) from multiple sources and to degrade such matter using microorganisms. Commercial composting involves breaking down organic matter to reduce, in volume, the wastes received, to alter the form of the waste to a less objectional form and to create compost products which can subsequently be sold or used for other purposes. Commercial composting businesses, when eligible for consideration within a zoning district, shall be considered only if they are proposed to be operated out-of-doors.
Comprehensive Plan. The Comprehensive Plan of the City of Monroe, adopted by the Citizens Planning Commission, which provides the City's long-range goals and objectives and provides a future land use map. The Comprehensive Plan includes any downtown, river corridor, roadway corridor, coastal zone or subarea plans, adopted by the Citizens Planning Commission as part of the Comprehensive Plan. [NEW]
Condominium. The following condominium terms shall apply in the application of this Ordinance: [MODIFIED]
(a) Condominium Documents. The master deed, as defined, and any other instrument referred to in the master deed or bylaws that affect the rights and obligations of a co-owner in the condominium.
(b) Condominium Lot. The condominium unit and the contiguous limited common element surrounding the condominium unit, which shall be the counterpart of "lot" as used in connection with a project developed under the Subdivision Control Act, Act 288 of the Public Acts of 1967, as amended.
(c) Condominium Unit. The portion of a condominium project designed and intended for separate ownership and use, as described in the master deed.
(d) General Common Elements. A portion of the comment elements reserved in the master deed for the use of all of the co-owners.
(e) Limited Common Elements. A portion of the common elements reserved in the master deed for the exclusive use of less than all of the co-owners.
(f) Master Deed. The condominium document recording the condominium project to which are attached as exhibits and incorporated by reference, the bylaws for the project and the condominium subdivision plan for the project, and all other information required by Section 8 of the Condominium Act.
(g) Site Condominium. A condominium development containing residential, commercial, office, industrial, or other structures or improvements for uses permitted in the zoning district in which the condominium development is located, in which each co-owner owns the exclusive right to a volume of space within which each co-owner may construct a structure or structures.
Court. An open space, other than a yard, on the same lot with, and bounded on two or more sides by, a building or group of buildings.
Crematorium. A building fitted with the proper appliances for the purposes of the cremation of human remains and includes everything incidental or ancillary thereto. [MODIFIED]
Deck. A structure without a roof having a foundation to hold it erect, and attached to or abutting one or more walls of a building or constructed separately from a building, with or without direct access to the ground, the floor of which is above finished grade, and intended for use as an outdoor living area. [MODIFIED]
Density, Gross. The number of dwelling units built on, or to be built on, a specified area of land (expressed in dwelling units per acre).
Density, Net. The number of dwelling units built on, or to be built on a specified area of land (expressed in dwelling units per acre) exclusive of land devoted to streets, alleys, public open space and 75% of the acreage comprised of open water, land within the 100-year flood plain elevation and/or wetlands protected by the Goemaere-Anderson Wetland Protection Act, being Act 203 of the Public Acts of 1979, as amended.
Development. The construction of a new building on a zoning lot that is appropriately zoned the relocation of an existing building on another zoning lot an appropriately zoned lot, or the utilization of open land that is appropriately zoned for a new use. [NEW]
District. A specified area of land, as titled and shown on the City of Monroe Zoning Map within which, on a uniform basis, certain uses of land and buildings are either permitted or prohibited and within which a specified set of development regulations applies.
Drinking Place. A business or building designed or used for sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, including such businesses as cocktail lounges, bars, taverns, saloons and social clubs.
Drive-in Establishment. A business establishment so developed that its principal retail or service character is dependent on providing a driveway approach or parking spaces for motor vehicles so as to serve patrons while in the motor vehicle (e.g. restaurants, cleaners, banks, theaters, etc.).
Drive-Through Establishment. An establishment that dispenses products or services to patrons who remain in vehicles. [NEW]
Driveway. A passageway (primarily for the use of vehicles) over private property, leading from a street to other public way to a garage or parking area. A horseshoe shape drive or a “T” shape drive located within a front yard is included within the definition. [NEW]
Dry-Cleaners, Coin Operated. A building or part of a building where the services of coin operated dry cleaning machines, using only non-combustible and non-flammable solvents, is made available to the public for the purpose of dry cleaning. [NEW]
Dry Cleaners, Distribution Station. A building or part of a building used only for the purpose of collection and distribution of articles to be subjected to the process of dry cleaning, washing, dry dyeing, cleaning and spotting and stain removing, and for the pressing of any such articles or goods which have been subjected to any such process elsewhere at a dry cleaners' plant. [NEW]
Dry Cleaning or Laundry Outlet. A building or part of a building used for the purpose of receiving articles or goods of fabric to be subjected to a process, carried out on-site, of cleaning or dyeing. Such establishment may also be used for pressing and/or distributing any articles or goods of fabric that have been received therein. [NEW]
Dwelling. A building or portion thereof designed for occupancy by one family for residential purposes and having single cooking and bath facilities for each. In no case shall a recreational vehicle, automobile, tent or other portable building, garage or accessory building be considered a dwelling unit. In the case of mixed occupancy, where a building is occupied in part as a dwelling unit, the part so occupied shall be deemed a dwelling unit for the purpose of this Zoning Ordinance. The following additional definitions are provided: [MODIFIED]
(a) Dwelling, Multiple-Family. A building designed exclusively for and containing three or more dwelling units. Multiple-family dwellings are typically of two basic styles as follows:
(1) Apartment style (garden style). A building containing dwelling units which have common walls and which are typically accessed by a common hallway and/or stairwell, served by a central hearing plant and leased.
(2) Attached single-family (townhouse). Three or more attached single-family dwelling units typically having the following characteristics: the presence of one or two common walls and the provision that each unit in a building has its own front and rear door, its own front and rear yard, its own heating plant and utility connection and its own basement.
(b) Dwelling, Single-Family Attached. Means three (3) or more attached single-family dwelling units typically having the following characteristics: the presence of one (1) or two (2) common walls and the provision that each unit in a building has its own front and rear door, its own front and rear yard, its own heating plant and utility connection and its own basement.
(c) Dwelling, Single-Family Detached. A detached building designed exclusively for and containing one (1) dwelling unit only.
(d) Dwelling, Two-Family. A detached building designed exclusively for and containing two (2) dwelling units only (also known as a duplex).
(e) Site-Built Dwelling. A structure constructed in accordance with the State Construction Code, in which elementary building materials and parts are transported to the building site where they are used to construct the total dwelling unit including its major individual components and systems.
(f) Manufactured Dwelling. A dwelling unit fabricated in an off-site manufacturing facility for installation or assembly at the building site and bearing the seal that it is built in compliance with the National Manufactured Housing and Construction Standards Code or the State of Michigan Construction Code. Mobile homes shall not be included in this definition.
(g) Mobile Home. A dwelling unit fabricated in an off-site manufacturing facility for installation in a mobile home park and bearing the seal that it is built in compliance with the National Manufactured Housing and Construction Standards Code or the State of Michigan Construction Code.
Dwelling Unit. A dwelling unit is any building or portion thereof having cooking facilities, which is occupied wholly as the home, residence or sleeping place of one (1) family, either permanently or transiently, but in no case shall a travel trailer, motor home, mobile home, trailer coach, automobile chassis, tent or other portable building be considered a dwelling in single-, multiple-, or two-family residential areas. In cases of mixed occupancy where a building is occupied in part as a dwelling unit, the part so occupied shall be deemed a dwelling unit for the purpose of this Chapter and shall comply with the provisions thereof relative to dwellings.
Easement. The right of an owner of property by reason of such ownership, to use the property of another for purposes of ingress, egress, utilities, drainage and similar uses. [NEW]
Equipment Rental. A building or part of a building where residential, industrial and commercial equipment is kept for rental to the general public and includes such things as lawn and garden tools, floor cleaning equipment, masonry tools, painting and decorating equipment, moving tools, plumbing tools and power tools. [NEW]
Erected. Means built, constructed, reconstructed or moved upon, or any physical operations on premises required for construction, excavation, fill, drainage and the like.
Essential Services. The erection, construction, alteration or maintenance by public utilities or Municipal departments or commissions of underground, surface or overhead gas, electrical, steam or water transmission or distribution systems, or collection, public or franchised communication, supply or disposal systems, including mains, drains, sewers, pipes, conduits, wires, cables, fire alarm boxes, police call boxes, traffic signals, hydrants, towers, poles, antennas and other similar equipment and accessories. Main rail lines are included in this definition, but classification yards are excluded from this definition. Buildings shall not be considered an essential service unless they are necessary to house or protect an essential service/utility. Telecommunications towers and antennas are not defined as an essential service.
Excavating. The removal of sand, stone, gravel or fill dirt below the average grade of the surrounding land and/or road grade, whichever shall be higher. Excavating does not include normal garden or lawn maintenance.
Exception. An exclusion from the normal Zoning Code rules and regulations for the purposes of permitting particular uses or structures which are considered essential or appropriate in certain locations or under certain conditions as may be approved by the Zoning Board of Appeals. A variance is not required for uses or structures which are permitted because of an exception.
Façade. That portion of any exterior elevation on the building extending from grade to top of the parapet, wall, or eaves and the entire width of the building elevation. [NEW]
Family. A single individual or a number of individuals domiciled together whose relationship is of a continuing non-transient, domestic character and who are cooking and living together as a single, nonprofit housekeeping unit. This shall not include any society, club, fraternity, sorority, association, lodge, coterie, organization, or group of students or other individuals whose relationship is of a transitory or seasonal nature or for anticipated limited duration of school terms or other similar determinable period. [MODIFIED]
Fence. An artificially constructed structure of definite height and location constructed of wood, wire, metal, bollard or poles linked by chains, or any other material or combination of materials intended as a screening device, physical barrier or enclosure.
Fence, Decorative. An artificially constructed structure of definite height and location constructed of wrought iron, brick, masonry, stone or other non-traditional materials. Solid masonry walls are considered to be a wall, not a decorative fence. [NEW]
Filling. The depositing or dumping of any matter onto, or into, the ground, except common household gardening.
Fitness Center. A facility which provides indoor exercise facilities, such as exercise machines and weight-lifting equipment, usually in a structured physical activity program supervised by professional physical fitness instructors or specialists in sports medicine. As defined herein, personal fitness center shall not include spectator seating for sports events. A personal fitness center may or may not be enclosed within a gym.
Floodplain. The relatively flat area or low lands adjoining the channel or watercourse or a body of water, which may be periodically covered by floodwater when high amounts of precipitation are experienced. These areas are defined as flood hazard zoned by the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) based upon the following: [MODIFIED]
(a) Contiguous areas paralleling major rivers or streams that constitute at their maximum edge the highest flood levels experienced in a period of one hundred (100) years.
(b) Principal wetland areas that are part of the river flow system.
(c) Contiguous areas paralleling major rivers or streams that exhibit unstable soil conditions for development.
Floodway. The channel of any watercourse and those portions of the flood plain adjoining the channel which are reasonably required to carry and discharge flood water. [NEW]
Floor Area. The area included within the surrounding exterior walls of a building or portion thereof, exclusive of vent shafts and courts. For the purpose of computing the minimum allowable floor area in a residential dwelling unit, the sum of the horizontal areas of each story of the building shall be measured from the exterior faces of the exterior walls or from the centerline of walls separating two dwellings. The floor area measurement is exclusive of areas of basements, unfinished attics, attached garages, breezeways, utility rooms and enclosed and unenclosed porches.
Floor Area, Gross. For the purpose of computing parking, the area that is the sum of the horizontal areas of each story of the building, measured from the interior surfaces of the exterior walls. Gross floor area shall include hallways, stairways, interior lobbies and similar areas; but shall exclude exterior porches, attached garages and attics and basements which cannot accommodate commercial or office operations other than storage. [NEW]
Floor Area, Usable. For the purpose of computing parking, that area used for or intended to be used for the sale of merchandise or services or for use to serve patrons, clients or customers. Such floor area which is used or intended to be used principally for the storage or processing of merchandise, or for utilities, shall be excluded from this computation of usable floor area. Measurement of floor area shall be the sum of the gross horizontal areas of the several floors of the building, measured from the interior faces of the exterior walls. For the purpose of computing parking for those uses not enclosed within a building, the area used for the sale or display of merchandise and/or the area used to serve patrons or clients shall be measured to determine necessary parking spaces. A figure of eighty (80) percent of gross floor area shall be permitted for useable floor area in instances where determining useable floor area by measurement is not possible. [NEW]
USEABLE FLOOR AREA
Frontage. The linear dimension measured along the public street right-of-way line.
Functional Equivalent of a Family. Instances where members of a household may not be related in a conventional nuclear family (See definition for Family). [NEW]
Garage, Private. An accessory building or portion of a main building that is designed or used primarily for the storage of motor-driven vehicles, boats and similar vehicles owned and used by the occupants of the building to which it is accessory.
Garage, Public. Any building used for the storage or care of motor-driven vehicles, or where any such vehicles are equipped for operation, repaired or kept for remuneration, hire or sale.
Garden Center. An establishment with retail sales of trees, fruits, vegetables, shrubbery, plants, landscaping supplies, lawn furniture, playground equipment and other home garden supplies and equipment.
Governmental Use. Any use by the Federal, State, County or City government necessary to carry out the functions of government.
Grade. The degree of rise or descent of a sloping surface. [NEW]
Grade, Average. The arithmetic average of the lowest and highest grade elevations in an area within five (5) feet of the foundation line of a building or structure, or in the area between the foundation line and the lot line, where the foundation line is less then five (5) feet from the lot line. Average grade shall be used in determining building height and number of stories.
Grade, Finished. The final elevation of the ground surface after development. [NEW]
Grade, Road. The elevation of the curb at the mid-point of the front of the lot. Where no curb exists, the grade shall be the average elevation of the road adjacent to the property line.
Habitable Space. Space in a structure for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet compartments, closets, halls, storage or utility space, and similar areas, are not considered habitable space.
Hazardous Substances. Hazardous substances include hazardous chemicals as defined by the Michigan Department of Public Health and the Michigan Department of Labors; flammable and combustible liquids as defined by the Michigan Department of State Police, Fire Marshal Division; hazardous materials as defined by the U.S. Department of Transportation; critical materials, polluting materials, and hazardous waste as defined by the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, and hazardous substances as defined in Michigan Public Act 307 of 1982, as amended, and the Federal Comprehensive Environmental Response Compensation and Utility Act of 1980, Public Act 96-510, 94 STAT 2767, as amended. [MODIFIED]
Helicopter. A type of aircraft whose aerodynamic support is obtained from propellers rotating on a more or less vertical access and which is capable of rising and descending vertically. [MODIFIED]
Heliport. An area of land, water or a fixed structure used or intended to be used for the landing and take of off of helicopters or other rotary wing aircrafts. [MODIFIED]
Helistop. A landing area for occasional and infrequent use by rotary wing aircraft not exceeding a gross weight of 10,000 pounds and not for regularly scheduled stops. [MODIFIED]
Home Improvement Center. A facility of more than 30,000 square feet of gross floor area, engaged in the retail of sale of various basic hardware lines, such as tools, builder’s hardware, paint and glass, house wares and household appliances, garden supplies, etc. [MODIFIED]
Home Occupation. An occupation, profession, activity, or use by a resident that is clearly a customary, incidental, and secondary use of a residential dwelling unit and which does not alter the exterior of the property or affect the residential character of the neighborhood. Valid agricultural enterprises are not included with this definition.
Hospital, General. A facility for inpatient care and services for observation, diagnosis and active treatment of patients with a medical, surgical, obstetric or chronic condition requiring daily care and supervision by physicians and by a professional medical support staff. A hospital includes 24 hour emergency care services, inpatient/outpatient diagnostic and therapeutic services and medical clinics.
Hospital, Psychiatric. A facility offering inpatient and outpatient mental health services that is licensed to provide such services by the Michigan Department of Mental Health.
Hospital, Specialty. A facility offering health care services to a specific group of patients classified by disease or patient category, such as eye, rehabilitation, cardiac care, ear, nose, throat, pediatric, oncology, orthopedic, skin, cancer, burn centers, neo-natal care, children's hospitals, ophthalmology centers and similar specialized care services. Psychiatric hospitals and substance abuse centers are considered to be a distinct use. (see Substance Abuse Center).
Hotel. A building or group of buildings with a common entrance or entrances, containing rooms designed to provide transient lodging for compensation for periods of thirty (30) days or less, and in which one or more of the following services are offered: maid service, furnishing of linen, telephone, secretarial or desk service and bellhop service. A hotel may include a restaurant or cocktail lounge, public banquet hall, ballroom or meeting room. [MODIFIED]
Housing for the Elderly. A building or group of buildings containing dwellings intended for, and solely occupied by, elderly persons as defined by the federal Fair Housing Amendments Act of 1988. Housing for the elderly may include independent and/or assisted living arrangements but shall not include convalescent or nursing facilities regulated by the State of Michigan. [MODIFIED]
Independent Living Facility. A building providing care up to 24 hours a day for five (5) to eleven (11) children, minors or adults who are unattended by a parent or guardian.
Indoor Recreation Centers. This use includes, but is not limited to, indoor recreation facilities, community centers, senior centers, gymnasiums, indoor tennis or other racquet courts, indoor sports arenas, swimming pools, or similar uses which are enclosed in buildings and are open to all community residents or those living within certain developments or neighborhoods. “Indoor Recreation Centers” shall include any accessory uses, such as snack bars, pro shops, accessory office and locker rooms, which are designed and intended primarily for the use of patrons of the principal recreational use. [MODIFIED]
Junk Yard. A lot and any accessory buildings where waste, used or secondhand materials including, but not limited to, automobiles, scrap iron, and other metals, paper, rags, rubber tires, wood, and bottles, are stored, baled, packed, disassembled, or handled for the purpose of purchase, sale, or exchange. [MODIFIED]
Kennel, Commercial. Any building and/or land used, designed, or arranged for the boarding, breeding, or care of more than five (5) dogs, cats, or other domestic animals for profit, but shall not include those animals raised for agricultural purposes. [MODIFIED]
Kennel, Private. Any building and/or land used, designed or arranged for the boarding, breeding, or care of dogs, cats, or other domestic animals belonging to the owner thereof and kept for purposes of show, hunting, or as pets (but not to include riding stables, or animals raised for agricultural purposes), provided that no more than three (3) such animals six (6) months old or older are kept on the premises either permanently or temporarily. The keeping of such animals shall be strictly incidental to the principal use of the premises and shall not be for the purposes of remuneration or sale. [MODIFIED]
Laboratory. An establishment devoted to research and experimental studies, including testing and analyzing, but not including manufacturing (with the exception of prototype development).
Land Division. The dividing, portioning, or splitting of a parcel or tract of land.
Landscaping. The treatment of the ground surface with live plant materials such as, but not limited to, grass ground cover, trees, shrubs, vines and other live plant material. In addition, a landscape design may include other decorative man-made materials, such as wood chips, crushed stone, boulders or mulch. Structural features such as fountains, pools, statues and benches shall also be considered a part of landscaping if provided in combination with live plant material. Various landscaping related terms are defined in Section 1270.02 Landscaping, Greenbelts and Buffers, and Screening. [MODIFIED]
Large Scale Retail Establishment. A retail establishment commonly referred to as a “big box” store, which exceeds sixty-five thousand (65,000) square feet in gross floor area for a single tenant. [NEW]
Level of Service. A qualitative measure describing operational conditions within a traffic stream, generally described in terms of such factors as speed and travel time, freedom to maneuver, traffic interruptions, comfort and convenience, and safety.
Loading Space. An off-street space on the same lot with a building or groups of buildings, that is used for temporary parking of a commercial vehicle while loading or unloading merchandise or materials.
Lot. A designated parcel, tract or area of land established by plat or subdivision, or as otherwise permitted by law, to be separately owned, used, developed or built upon. A lot shall have frontage on a dedicated road. The following additional definitions are provided: [MODIFIED]
(a) Lot, Corner. A lot where the interior angle of two adjacent sides at the intersection of two (2) streets is less than 135 degrees. A lot abutting upon a curved street or streets shall be considered a corner lot, for the purposes of this Zoning Ordinance, if the arc is of less radius than 150 degrees and the tangents to the curve, at the two (2) points where the lot lines meet the curve or the straight street line extended, form an interior angle of less than 135 degrees.
(b) Lot, Flag. A lot, located behind other lots or parcels, having access to a public street by means of a narrow strip of land (with drive) which does not meet the minimum width for a lot at the front lot line. Flag lots are not permitted in the City.
(c) Lot, Interior. Any lot other than a corner lot.
(d) Lot, Through or Double Frontage. An interior lot having frontages on two parallel streets as distinguished from a corner lot. In the case of a row of double frontage lots, one street will be designated as the front street for all lots in the plat and in the request for a building permit.
LOT EXAMPLES
Lot Area. The total horizontal area within the lot lines of the lot, exclusive of any abutting public street or alley right of way, private road easements or the area of any body of water. A State regulated wetland can be included in a minimum lot area if a building envelope, meeting all required setbacks and minimum floor area, can be provided exclusive of the wetland area. (see also Density, Gross and Density, Net).
Lot, Conforming. Any lot or parcel of record which meets the minimum required size and dimensional standards for lots as contained in this Zoning Ordinance.
Lot Coverage. The percent of the lot permitted to be occupied by buildings or structures, including accessory buildings and structures.
Lot Depth. The horizontal distance between the front and rear lot lines, measured along the median between the side lot lines.
Lot Lines. Any line dividing one (1) lot from another or from a public right-of-way, and thus constitutes the property lines bounding a lot. The property lines bounding a lot are defined as follows:
(a) Front Lot Line. In the case of an interior lot, a front lot line is that line separating said lot from the street. In the case of corner or double frontage lot, the front lot line shall be that line separating said lot from that street which is designated as the front street in the plat, in the application, or if necessary, as designated by the Zoning Administrator.
(b) Rear Lot Line. A rear lot line is that lot line which is opposite from the front lot line of the lot. In the case of an irregular, triangular or gore-shaped lot, a line ten (10) feet in length, entirely within the lot parallel to and at the maximum distance from the front lot line of the lot, shall be considered as the rear lot line for the purpose of determining the depth of the rear yard. In cases where none of these definitions is applicable, the Zoning Administrator shall designate the rear lot line.
(c) Side Lot Line. A side lot line is any lot line other than a front or a rear lot line. A side lot line separating a lot from a street is a side street lot line. A side lot line separating a lot from another lot or lots is an interior side lot line.
(d) Street or Alley Lot Line. A street or alley lot line is a lot line separating the lot from the right-of-way of a street or an alley.
Lot of Record. A lot which exists in a subdivision plat as shown on the records of the County Register of Deeds.
Lot, Waterfront. A lot having frontage directly upon a lake, river, or other reasonably sized impoundment of water. The portion adjacent to the water shall be designated as the water frontage of the lot, and the opposite side shall be designated the street frontage of the lot. [NEW]
Lot Width. The horizontal distance between side lot lines, measured parallel to the front lot line at the minimum required front yard setback line.
Lumber Yard. A building or structure used for the storage of timber sawed into beams, planks or boards of convenient size that are for sale with other related retail items and services for construction purposes. [NEW]
Manufacturing. The use of land, buildings or structures for the principal purpose of manufacturing, assembling making, preparing, inspecting, finishing, treatment, altering, repairing, fabricating or adapting for sale of any goods, substance, articles, thing or service. [NEW]
Manufacturing, Fabrication and Light. Manufacturing shops employing low intensity methods, including small tool and die shops, food products, pharmaceutical or jewelry manufacturing, dental, surgical and optical goods manufacturing and fabrication of paper products from raw materials produced elsewhere, but not including pressing or stamping operations. [NEW]
Manufactured Home Sales. Business establishments engaged in the display and sale of factory built, single-family structures that are manufactured under the authority of the National Manufactured Housing and Construction Standards Code. For the purposes of this definition, mobile homes are considered a type of manufactured housing. Recreational vehicles, travel trailers and motor homes are not considered manufactured homes for the purposes of this ordinance and definition. [NEW]
Marina. A marina is a private or publicly-owned facility extending into or over the River Raisin or any other watercourse and offering services to the public or members of the marina for launching, docking, loading or other services for recreational watercraft. [NEW]
Mausoleum. A building or other structure used as a place for the interment of the dead in sealed crypts or compartments. [NEW]
Mezzanine. An intermediate floor in any story occupying not to exceed one third (1/3) of the floor area of such story. A mezzanine shall be deemed a full story when it covers more than fifty (50) percent of the area of the story underneath said mezzanine, or if the vertical distance from the floor next below it to the floor next above it is twenty-four (24) feet or more.
[MODIFIED]
MEZZANINE
Mobile Home. A structure, transportable in one (1) or more sections, which is built on a chassis and designed to be used as a dwelling with or without permanent foundation, when connected to the required facilities, and includes the plumbing, heating, air conditioning, and electrical system contained in the structure. Mobile home does not include a recreational vehicle. [MODIFIED]
Mobile Home Condominium Project: A condominium project where mobile homes are intended to be located upon separate sites which constitute individual condominium units pursuant to M.C.L.A. 559.101 et. seq. [NEW]
Mobile Home Pad. That part of a mobile home site designed and constructed for the placement of a mobile home, appurtenant structures, or additions including expandable rooms, enclosed patios, garages, or structural additions. [NEW]
Mobile Home Park. A parcel or tract of land under the control of a person, upon which three (3) or more mobile homes are located on a continual non-recreational basis, and which is offered to the public for that purpose, regardless of whether a charge is made, together with any building, structure, enclosure, street, equipment or facility used or intended for use incident to the occupancy of a mobile home, and which is not intended for use as a seasonal trailer park pursuant to M.C.L.A. 125.2301 et. seq.
Mobile Home Site. The entire area, which is designated for use by a specific mobile home. [NEW]
Mobile Home Subdivision. A mobile home park, except that the mobile home lots are subdivided, surveyed, recorded and sold in accordance with the Michigan Subdivision Control Act of 1967, M.C.L.A. 560.101 et. seq. [NEW]
Mortuary/Morgue. A place where dead bodies are stored and prepared before cremation or burial. [NEW]
Motel. A building or group of buildings of rental units, in which each rental unit contains a bedroom and a bathroom, designed to provide transient lodging for compensation for periods of thirty (30) days or less. [MODIFIED]
Nature Preserves / Natural Areas. An area containing important natural features, such as woodlands, wetlands, floodplain and open space. [NEW]
Neighborhood Commercial. Small scale retail or service uses permitted within selective mixed use/residential areas. [NEW]
New Construction. The erection of, addition to, or extension of, any building or structure, and the excavation or grading of land in preparation for such erection, addition or extension.
Night Club. A place of entertainment, open at night for eating, drinking, and dancing, and usually having live entertainment. [NEW]
Non-Conforming Lot. A lot, created prior to the effective date of this ordinance, or amendments thereto, and which does not conform to the lot area regulations for the district in which it is located. [MODIFIED]
Non-Conforming Structure. A structure or part of a structure constructed and existing at the effective date of this ordinance, or amendments thereto, that does not conform to the Area, Placement, Height Regulations, Off-Street Parking and Loading requirements, and/or other applicable requirements of the district in which it is located.
Non-Conforming Use. A structure, building, lot, or other parcel of land occupied by a use at the effective date of this ordinance, or amendments thereto, and which does not conform to the Use Regulations of the district in which it is located.
Nursery, Plant Material. A space, building or structure, or a combination thereof, for the storage of live trees, shrubs or plants offered for retail sale on the premises, including products used for gardening or landscaping. The definition of nursery, within the meaning of this Zoning Ordinance, does not include any space, building or structure used for the sale of fruits, vegetables or Christmas trees.
Nursing Home or Convalescent Home. A State-licensed home for the care of the aged, infirm or those who need a wide range of health and support services, wherein two (2) or more persons are housed and furnished with personal nursing care.
Occupancy Permit. A required permit, issued by the Building Official, allowing the use of a building or structure, after it has been determined that all the requirements of applicable ordinances have been met.
Occupied. The residing of an individual or individuals overnight in a dwelling unit or the storage or use of equipment, merchandise or machinery in any public, commercial, institutional or industrial building.
Offset. The distance between the centerlines of driveways or streets across the street from one another.
Off-Street Loading Space. An off-street space on the same lot with a building, or group of buildings, for the temporary parking of a commercial vehicle while loading and unloading merchandise or materials there from. [NEW]
Off-Street Parking Lot. A vehicular parking area, together with access aisles and drives, which is located outside of street rights of way and which provides parking accommodation for two or more vehicles. Off-street parking areas may also include loading areas and associated maneuvering space.
Open Air Businesses. Businesses operated on a seasonal or year-round basis which are not conducted from a wholly enclosed building and which include, but are not limited to:
(a) Product sales or rentals;
(b) Outdoor product display;
(c) Fruit and vegetable markets;
(d) Nurseries and garden supply and equipment; and
(e) Commercial recreation businesses.
Open Construction. A method of constructing units, buildings, building components, assemblies or systems in such a manner that all portions can be readily inspected at the building site without disassembly, damage or destruction.
Open Space. An area that is intended to provide light and air and that is designed for environmental, scenic or recreational purposes. Open space may include, but is not limited to, lawns, decorative planting, walkways, active and passive recreation areas, playgrounds, fountains, swimming pools, living plant materials, wetlands and watercourses. Open space shall not be deemed to include driveways, parking lots or other surfaces designed or intended for vehicular travel.
Open Storage. All outdoor storage of building materials, sand, gravel, stone, lumber, equipment, construction vehicles and other supplies. [NEW]
Outdoor Recreation Centers. Active recreation facilities, which are not enclosed in buildings, and are open to the public or operated on a commercial or membership basis for the use of persons not residing on the same lot on which the recreation use is located. It includes golf courses, driving ranges, swimming pools, tennis courts, playing fields or courts, and other similar facilities as well as accessory uses such as concession stands, equipment rental or storage, pro shops and clubhouses used primarily by the patrons of the principal recreational use. [NEW]
Parcel of Record. An area of land described by a metes and bounds description and which is not necessarily a lot of record in a subdivision plat as recorded at the County Register of Deeds.
Park, Public. Any open space or recreational area, owned or controlled by a Corporation or by any Board, Commission or other Authority established under any statute of the State and may include therein neighborhood, community, regional and special parks or areas and may include one (1) or more athletic fields, field houses, community centers, bleachers, swimming pools, greenhouses, botanical gardens, zoological gardens, bandstands, skating rinks, tennis courts, bowling greens, bathing stations, curling rinks, refreshment rooms, fairgrounds, arenas or similar uses. [NEW]
Parking Space. An area of definite length and width, exclusive of drives, aisles or entrances giving access thereto, which shall be fully accessible for the parking of permitted vehicles.
Parking Lot, Accessory. A tract of land other than a street, designed and used for the parking or storage of motor vehicles, for the use of occupants, employees and patrons of the building or premises to which it is accessory. [NEW]
Parking Lot, Public. A tract of land, other than an accessory parking lot or a street, used for the parking or storage of motor vehicles for general public use, either free or for remuneration. [NEW]
Paved Surface Area. An area covered with cobblestone, clay-fired bricks, concrete precast paver units (including, but not limited to, grasscrete), poured concrete with or without decorative surface materials, blacktop, or other asphaltic or rubber mixture which may include sand or gravel as an ingredient and which creates a hard surface. A graded natural surface or one covered with rolled stone or overlaid with loose gravel is not considered a paved surface. [NEW]
Pawnbroker. Any person whose business or occupation includes the taking or receiving, by way of pledge or pawn, of any article of personal property as security for the payment or repayment of money. [NEW]
Pawn Shop or Collateral Loan and/or Exchange Establishments. Any business that loans money on deposit of personal property or deals in the purchase or possession of personal property on condition of selling the same back again to the pledger or depositor, or loans or advances money on personal property by taking chattel mortgage security thereon, and takes or receives such personal property. [NEW]
Peak Hour. A one-hour period representing the highest hourly volume of traffic flow on the adjacent street system during the morning (a.m. peak hour) during the afternoon or evening (p.m. peak hour), or representing the hour of highest volume of traffic entering or exiting a site (peak hour of generator).
Performance Guarantee. A financial guarantee to ensure that all improvements, facilities or work required by this Zoning Ordinance will be completed in compliance with this Zoning Ordinance, other City ordinances and regulations and the approved plans and specifications of a development.
Permitted Use. Any use allowed by right in a zoning district and subject to the restrictions applicable to that zoning district. [NEW]
Person. Person shall include any individual, corporation, or partnership. [NEW]
Personal Inventory Facility. An enclosed storage facility containing independent, fully enclosed bays that are leased to individuals. [NEW]
Personal Service Establishment. A business where personal services are provided for profit and where the sale, of goods is only accessory to the provisions of such services, including but not limited to the following: barber shops, beauty shops, tailor shops, laundry or dry cleaning shops, shoe repair shops, licensed by the State of Michigan where applicable. [NEW]
Personal Service Establishment, Associated. Area set aside for the provision of services relating to the main product or service of the establishment, including those of an office, showroom or workshop nature which are occupied by an electrician, decorator, dressmaker, tailor, baker, painter or upholsterer, or which are for the purpose of radio or home appliance repair, plumbing, heating and cooling, glass or photographic reproduction, and similar establishments. [NEW]
Planned Unit Development (PUD). A form of development usually characterized by the flexible application of zoning district regulations and unified site design for a number of housing units, clustering buildings, providing common open space, and a mix of building types and land uses. It permits the planning of a project and the calculation of densities over the entire development, rather than on an individual lot-by-lot basis. It also refers to a process, mainly revolving around site-plan review, in which the City will have considerable involvement in determining the nature of the development. [MODIFIED]
Plant Nursery. A place where young trees or other plants are raised for experimentation, transplantation, or for sale. [NEW]
Playground. An area of landscaped open space equipped with children’s play equipment such as slides, swings, wading pools or similar equipment and game areas. [NEW]
Porch, Enclosed. A covered entrance to a building or structure that is totally enclosed, and projects out from the main wall of said building or structure and has a separate roof or an integral roof with the principal building or structure to which it is attached. [NEW]
Porch, Open. A covered entrance to a building or structure that is unenclosed except for columns supporting the porch roof, and projects out from the main wall of said building or structure and has a separate roof or an integral roof with the principal building or structure to which it is attached. [NEW]
Premise. A unit of contiguous property under common ownership. [NEW]
Principal Use. The primary or most predominant use of a parcel. [NEW]
Private Medical Practice. Businesses for the purpose of providing direct patient care to the local community and not to sell medical devices as a primary purpose. [NEW]
Private Clubs, Fraternal Halls, and Union Halls. An organization catering exclusively to members and their guests; or premises and buildings for recreational, artistic, political or social purposes, which are not conducted primarily for gain. [NEW]
Professional Office. Office facilities for doctors, lawyers, architects, financial managers or other disciplines. [NEW]
Public Utility. Any Municipal department, public entity or franchised corporation, duly authorized to furnish and furnishing, under Federal, State or Municipal regulations, to the public, electricity, gas, steam, communications, telegraph, transportation, water and other similar services. Telecommunications towers and antennas are not defined as a public utility.
Quarry Excavation. The removal of any soil or rock from a site for the purpose of resource extraction. (see Excavating).
Reasonable Access. An access management term defined as ensuring that a motorist can enter or exit a parcel in an uncomplicated manner that will not significantly prevent his or her visiting an establishment. Reasonable access may not always be the most direct access, but may involve use of a shared driveway or service drive.
Recreational Equipment. One (1) or more of the following, or modifications thereof: travel trailer, camp trailer, tent trailer, camper, pickup camper, folding tent trailer, utility trailer, boat, boat trailer, personal water craft, float and/or raft, including transportation equipment, manufactured motorized home, manufactured motor bus, all designed to be used as a temporary dwelling for travel, recreational and vacation use or periodical and occasional family recreational and vacation use. [NEW]
Recreational Vehicle. These uses shall be defined as follows:
(a) Boats and Boat Trailers. Includes boats, floats, rafts, canoes, plus the normal equipment to transport them on the highway.
(b) Folding Tent Trailer. A canvas folding structure mounted on wheels and designed for travel and vacation use.
(c) Motor Home. A recreational vehicle intended for temporary human habitation, sleeping and/or eating, mounted upon a chassis with wheels and capable of being moved from place-to-place under its own power. Motor homes generally contain sanitary, water, and electrical facilities.
(d) Other Recreational Equipment. Includes snowmobiles, all-terrain or special terrain vehicles, utility trailers, plus the normal equipment to transport them on the highway.
(e) Pickup Camper. A structure designed to be mounted on a pickup or truck chassis with sufficient equipment to render it suitable for use as a temporary dwelling during the process of travel, recreational, and vacation uses.
(f) Travel Trailer. A portable vehicle on a chassis, not exceeding thirty-six (36) feet in length or nine (9) feet in width, which is designed to be used as a temporary dwelling during travel, recreational, and vacation uses, and which may be identified as a "travel trailer" by the manufacturer. Travel trailers generally contain sanitary, water, and electrical facilities.
Recycling Center. A lot or parcel of land, with or without buildings, upon which wastes are recovered in a process designed to provide an acceptable re-use of all or part of the waste. A recycling center does not include storage containers or processing activity which is located on the premises of a residential, commercial or manufacturing use and which is used solely for the recycling of material generated by that residential property, business or manufacturer.
Refuse. All rubbish, refuse, waste material, and garbage, including, but not limited to, the following: waste composed of animal, fish, fowl, fruit or vegetable matter, dead animals, putrescible and solid waste (except body wastes), ashes, glass, cans, bottles, discarded or abandoned machinery, household appliances, industrial wastes, discarded, inoperative, dismantled or partially dismantled motorized vehicles or parts thereof. This shall not preclude home composting for on-site use. [NEW]
Resource Recovery Center. A building, and all associated structures thereof, designed and operated for the purpose of processing or collecting wastes in such a way as to produce materials or energy which may be used in manufacturing, agriculture, heat production, power production or other productive processes or for any purpose designed to re-use materials or products or to conserve natural resources.
Restaurant. Any establishment whose principal business is the sale of food and beverages to the customer in a ready-to-consume state and whose method of operation is characteristic of a carry-out, drive-in, drive-through, fast food, standard restaurant or bar/lounge/tavern, or a combination thereof, as defined below.
(a) Bar/Lounge/Tavern. A bar, lounge or tavern is a type of restaurant which is operated primarily for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages, but in which the sale of prepared food or snacks may also be permitted. If a bar, lounge or tavern is part of a larger dining facility, it shall be defined as that part of the structure so designated or operated.
(b) Carry-Out. A carry-out restaurant is a business establishment whose method of operation involves the sale of food, beverages and/or frozen desserts in disposable or edible containers or wrappers, in a ready-to-consume state and for consumption primarily off the premises, but in which seating for up to thirty (30) persons may be provided.
(c) Drive-In. A drive-in restaurant is a business establishment whose method of operation involves delivery of prepared food so as to allow its consumption in a motor vehicle or elsewhere on the premises, but outside of an enclosed building. A drive-in restaurant may also have interior seating.
(d) Drive-Through. A drive-through restaurant is a business establishment whose method of operation involves the delivery of prepared food to a customer in a motor vehicle, typically through a drive-through window, for consumption off the premises.
(e) Sidewalk Cafe. An area adjacent to and directly in front of a street-level eating or drinking establishment located within the sidewalk area of the public right-of-way exclusively for dining, drinking, and pedestrian circulation. The encroachment area of a sidewalk cafe may be separated from the remainder of the sidewalk by railings, fencing, or landscaping planter boxes or a combination thereof. [NEW]
(f) Standard Restaurant. A standard restaurant is a business establishment whose method of operation involves either the delivery of prepared food by waiters and waitresses to customers seated at tables within a completely enclosed building or the acquisition of prepared food by customers at a cafeteria line which food is subsequently consumed by the customers at tables within a completely enclosed building.
Retail Establishment. A building where merchandise is offered or kept for retail sale, including storage of limited quantities of such merchandise sufficient only to service such store. [NEW]
Retail Establishment, Convenience and Specialty. A retail establishment including a specialty or more limited scope of goods, including art/office supplies, computer equipment and supplies, beverages (including liquor outlets), confections, delicatessen, drugs, dry goods, flowers, food stores (grocery and specialty food), bakeries, gifts, hardware, major appliances, jewelry, leather goods, music, notions, paint, periodicals, household and electrical appliances, sewing machines (noncommercial), sporting goods, stamps or coins, stationery, sundry, small household articles, tobacco and wearing apparel. [NEW]
Retaining Wall. A wall designed and constructed to hold back a mass of earth. [NEW]
Right-of-Way. A legal right of passage over real property typically associated with roads, utilities and railroads. [NEW]
Roadside Stand. A temporary or permanent building which is used to sell agricultural products, craft goods or similar goods which have been grown on the premises on which the stand is located. Such stands shall not be considered a commercial activity and shall not be considered justification for establishment of a Commercial District.
Seasonal Events. A temporary use intended for limited duration during certain times of the year including Christmas tree sales, flower sales, festivals, etc. [NEW]
Seasonal Structure. A seasonal structure includes any type of dock, boat hoist, ramp, raft or other recreational structure which is placed into an inland lake or stream and removed at the end of the boating season. [NEW]
Secondhand Store. Any building, structure, premises, or part thereof used solely or partially for the sale of secondhand clothing, furniture, books, or household goods, or solely or primarily for the sale of secondhand household appliances. [NEW]
Self-Storage/Mini-Storage Facility. A building or group of buildings in a controlled-access compound, each of which consists of several individual storage units, each with a separate door and lock and which can be leased on an individual basis. [NEW]
Senior Housing. Housing constructed for the exclusive use of an individual fifty-five (55) years of age or older or for a couple of which at least one of the individuals is over the age of fifty-five (55). Senior housing may include one or more of the following types of units: senior apartments, independent-living senior housing complexes (one or more buildings where the occupancy is restricted by age) and congregate housing (a type of semi-independent housing facility containing congregate kitchen, dining and living areas and some special support services, but with separate sleeping rooms). (See Nursing Home).
Setback. The distance required to obtain the minimum required distance between the front, side or rear lot lines and the building line or parking lot. Setbacks from a public street or private road shall be measured from the right-of-way line or easement. Front setbacks along curvilinear streets shall be established along a line connecting points along the side lot lines meeting the required front yard setbacks. Driveways and pedestrian walkways may be located within the setback, but the remainder of the area shall be deemed open space.
SETBACKS
Shopping Center. A grouping of two (2) or more business establishments developed in accordance with an overall plan and designed and built as an interrelated project. Buildings constructed on outlots shall not be considered part of the shopping center unless access and parking easements are provided.
Shopping Mall, Enclosed. A shopping center in which access by the general public to each individual store, premises or commercial establishment is obtained from the outside through a common entrance or entrances and from the inside through a covered common mall or aisle. [NEW]
Sign. Any object, device, display or structure, or part thereof, situated outdoors or indoors, which is used to advertise, identify, display, direct or attract attention to an object, person, institution, organization, business, product, service, event or location by any means, including words, letters, figures, design, symbols, fixtures, colors, illumination or projected images. (See Section 1272.02 Sign Definitions for specific definitions). [MODIFIED]
Site Condominium. (see Condominium)
Special Land Use. A use of land for an activity which, under usual circumstances, could be detrimental to other land uses permitted within the same district or to the City overall, but which may be permitted when the particular character of the location or site design allows the use to be developed in a manner comparable with surrounding uses and infrastructure.
State Construction Code. The latest edition of the Michigan Building Code adopted by the State of Michigan in R408.30401 of the Michigan Administrative Code. [NEW]
State Licensed Day Care Facilities. [MODIFIED]
(a) Adult Day Care Facility. Includes the following definitions:
(1) Adult Family Day Care Home. A private home in which six (6) or less adults eighteen (18) years of age or older, receive care for periods of less than twenty-four (24) hours a day. It includes facilities for adults who are aged, mentally ill, developmentally disabled, or physically handicapped that require supervision on an ongoing basis. An adult day care home does not include alcohol or substance abuse rehabilitation centers, residential centers for persons released from or assigned to a correctional facility, or any other facilities which do not meet the definition of adult day care center.
(2) Adult Group Day Care Home. A private home in which more than six (6) but not more than twelve (12) adults eighteen (18) years of age or older, receive care for periods of less than twenty-four (24) hours a day. It includes facilities for adults who are aged, mentally ill, developmentally disabled, or physically handicapped that require supervision on an ongoing basis. An adult day care home does not include alcohol or substance abuse rehabilitation centers, residential centers for persons released from or assigned to a correctional facility, or any other facilities which do not meet the definition of adult day care center.
(3) Adult Day Care Center. A facility, other than a private residence, receiving one or more persons, eighteen (18) years of age or older, for care for periods of less than twenty-four (24) hours a day. It includes facilities for adults who are aged, mentally ill, developmentally disabled or physically handicapped that require supervision on an ongoing basis. An adult day-care center does not include alcohol or substance abuse rehabilitation centers, residential centers for persons released from or assigned to a correctional facility, or any other facilities which do not meet the definition of adult day-care center.
(b) Child Day Care Facilities. Includes the following definitions as defined and regulated by Public Act No. 116 of the Public Acts of 1973 as amended:
(1) Child Family Day Care Home. A state-licensed, owner-occupied private residence in which one (1) but not more than six (6) minor children are received for care and supervision for periods less than twenty-four (24) hours a day unattended by a parent or legal guardian, excepting children related to an adult member of the family by blood, marriage or adoption. It includes a home that gives care to an unrelated child for more than four (4) weeks in a calendar year.
(2) Child Group Day Care Home. A state-licensed, owner-occupied private residence in which seven (7) but not more than twelve (12) minor children are received for care and supervision for periods less than twenty-four (24) hours a day unattended by a parent or legal guardian, excepting children related to an adult member of the family by blood, marriage or adoption. It includes a home that gives care to an unrelated child for more than four (4) weeks in a calendar year.
(3) Child Care Center. Also known as “day care center”, a state-licensed facility, other than a private residence, receiving one (1) or more minor children for care and supervision for periods less than twenty-four (24) hours, and where the parents or guardians are not immediately available to the child.
State Licensed Foster Care Facilities. [MODIFIED]
(a) Adult Foster Care Facility. A state-licensed establishment that provides foster care to adults. It includes facilities and foster care homes for adults who are aged, mentally ill, developmentally disabled, or physically handicapped who require supervision on an ongoing basis but who do not require continuous nursing care. An adult foster care facility does not include convalescent or nursing homes, homes for the aged, hospitals, alcohol or substance abuse rehabilitation centers, residential centers for persons released from or assigned to a correctional facility, or any other facilities which have been exempted from the definition of adult foster care facility by the Adult Foster Care Facility Licensing Act, Public Act No. 218 of the Public Acts of 1979 as amended. The following additional definitions shall apply in the application of this Ordinance:
(1) Adult Foster Care Small Group Home. A facility with the approved capacity to receive twelve (12) or fewer adults who are provided supervision, personal care, and protection in addition to room and board, for twenty-four (24) hours a day, five (5) or more days a week, and for two (2) or more consecutive weeks for compensation.
(2) Adult Foster Care Large Group Home. A facility with approved capacity to receive at least thirteen (13) but not more than twenty (20) adults who are provided supervision, personal care, and protection in addition to room and board, for twenty-four (24) hours a day, five (5) or more days a week, and for two (2) or more consecutive weeks for compensation.
(3) Adult Foster Care Family Home. A private residence with the approved capacity to receive six (6) or fewer adults who are provided supervision, personal care, and protection in addition to room and board, for twenty-four (24) hours a day, five (5) or more days a week and for two (2) or more consecutive weeks for compensation. The adult foster care family home licensee must be a member of the household and an occupant of the residence.
(4) Adult Foster Care Congregate Facility. An adult foster care facility with the approved capacity to receive more than twenty (20) adults who are provided supervision, personal care, and protection in addition to room and board, for twenty-four (24) hours a day, five (5) or more days a week and for two (2) or more consecutive weeks for compensation.
(b) Child Foster Care Facility. A state-licensed establishment that provides foster care to minor children. The following additional definitions shall apply in the application of this Ordinance:
(1) Child Foster Family Home. A private home in which one (1) but not more than four (4) minor children, who are not related to an adult member of the household by blood, marriage, or who are not placed in the household pursuant to the adoption code, Chapter X of Act No. 288 of the Public Acts of 1939, being sections 710.21 to 710.70 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, are given care and supervision for twenty-four (24) hours a day, for four (4) or more days a week, for two (2) or more consecutive weeks, unattended by a parent or legal guardian.
(2) Child Foster Family Group Home. A private home in which more than four (4) but fewer than seven (7) minor children, who are not related to an adult member of the household by blood, marriage, or who are not placed in the household pursuant to Chapter X of Act No. 288 of Public Acts of 1939, are provided care for twenty-four (24) hours a day, for four (4) or more days a week, for two (2) or more consecutive weeks, unattended by a parent or legal guardian.
Story. That part of a building (except a mezzanine or basement as defined herein) included between the surface of one floor and the surface of the next floor, or, if there is no floor above, then the ceiling next above.
[MODIFIED]
DETERMINING A STORY
Story, Half. An uppermost story lying under a sloping roof, having an area of at least two hundred (200) square feet with a clear height of seven (7) feet, six (6) inches. For the purposes of this Zoning Ordinance, the usable floor area is only that area having at least four (4) feet clear height between floor and ceiling.
Street. A public thoroughfare, or approved private thoroughfare, which provides for traffic circulation and the principal means of access to abutting property, including an avenue, place, way, drive, lane, boulevard, highway, road and any other public thoroughfare, except an alley.
(a) Boulevard. A street developed to two two-lane, one-way pavements, separated by a median. [NEW]
(b) Collector Street. A street used primarily to carry traffic from minor streets to major thoroughfares. [NEW]
(c) Cul-de-Sac. A cul-de-sac street means a minor street of short length, having one end open to traffic and being permanently terminated at the other end by a vehicular turn-around.
(d) Dead-End. A dead-end is a street with only one access point.
(e) Loop Street. A minor street of short length with two openings to traffic beginning from the same street, projecting parallel to each other and connecting at their termination by a loop. [NEW]
(f) Major Street. Major streets are as defined on the Act 51 Map for the City of Monroe.
(g) Marginal Access Street. A minor street, parallel and adjacent to a major thoroughfare, which provides access to abutting properties and protection from through traffic. [NEW]
(h) Minor or Local Street. Local streets are as defined on the Act 51 Map for the City of Monroe.
(i) Private Drive. A private drive is a privately constructed and maintained drive within an approved condominium project. (Note: Private roads are not permitted in the City).
(j) Turn-Around. A short boulevard street permanently terminated by a vehicular turn-around. [NEW]
Structure. Anything constructed or erected, the use of which requires a permanent location on the ground or an attachment to something having a permanent location on the ground. [MODIFIED]
Structure, Historic. [NEW]
(a) Significant Historic Structures. Those structures which are identified by any study conducted by the City and/or the National Register to determine the historic values of those buildings which contribute significantly to the character of the City. All such structures retain a basic integrity of architectural design, setting, materials and workmanship. Such structures are identified with important persons, events or types of service, or embody the distinguishing characteristics of an architectural specimen, inherently valuable as a representation of a period, style or method of construction.
(b) Contributing Historic Structures. Those buildings which, while not possessing the importance of significant historic structures, make a positive contribution to the purpose of this Zoning Ordinance due to age or physical integrity. With appropriate repairs and restoration, such buildings may be designated significant at the request of the owners.
(c) Noncontributing Structures. A noncontributing structure means all structures not identified as significant or contributing.
Structural Alteration. Any change in the supporting members of a building or structure, such as bearing walls, partitions, columns, beams or girders; any change in the number of exits; any substantial roof change; or any expansion to the structure.
Subdivision. The partitioning or dividing of a parcel or tract of land by the proprietor thereof, or by his or her heirs, executors, administrators, legal representatives, successors or assigns, for the purpose of sale, lease of more than one (1) year, or building development, where the act of division creates five (5) or more parcels of land, each of which is ten (10) acres or less in area; or where five (5) or more parcels of land, each of which is ten (10) acres or less in area, are created by successive divisions within a period of ten (10) years. [NEW]
Subdivision Act. The Subdivision Control Act, being Act 288 of the Public Acts of 1967, as amended. [NEW]
Substance Abuse Center or Treatment Facility. A facility offering counseling, care and treatment for individuals addicted to drugs and alcohol, which is licensed by the Michigan Department of Mental Health, Office of Substance Abuse Services. A treatment facility may include detoxification services. A generally recognized pharmacy or a licensed hospital dispensing prescription medicines shall not be considered a substance abuse treatment facility.
Swimming Pool. Any structure or container, permanent or temporary, portable or nonportable, storable or nonstorable and capable of holding water to a depth of twenty-four (24) inches or more located above or below grade. This definition excludes structures with a surface area of fifty (50) square feet or less, such as a spa or hot tub.
Temporary Building or Structure. A building which is not permanently affixed to the property and which is permitted to exist for a specific reason for a period of time specified by the Administrative Site Plan Review Committee, or other applicable review board. A temporary structure shall include tents, manufactured units and similar structures.
Temporary Uses. Uses intended for limited duration within any zoning district. A temporary use shall not be interpreted to be a continuance of a nonconforming use. Temporary uses may include carnivals, circuses, art fairs, craft shows, sidewalk sales, antique sales, estate sales, auctions and similar events.
Theater. A place, either indoor or outdoor, where plays, operas or motion pictures are presented. [NEW]
Transition House. A residential dwelling used exclusively for the rehabilitation, supervision, guidance and counseling, or for programs designed for short-term residency, by the participant, where lodging and meals are provided by prearrangement for definite periods of not less than one week.
Transparent Glass. A type of glass which is clear or allows viewing through windows or doors. [NEW]
Use. The purpose for which land or premises or a building thereon is designed, arranged or intended or is for which it is occupied or maintained, let or leased.
Use, Change in. The transformation from one type of use to another. This transition may occur between permitted and special uses, and shall be regulated according to Section 1264 Site Plan Approval. [NEW]
Variance. A variance is a relaxation of regulations of this ordinance with respect to a specific lot, granted by the Board of Appeals. The variance shall not be contrary to the public interest and where, owing to conditions peculiar to the property and not the result of actions of the applicant, a literal enforcement of this ordinance would result in unnecessary hardship or practical difficulty. [NEW]
Veterinary Clinic. A facility providing diagnosis, treatment, surgery and similar veterinary care for small domestic animals, with no overnight outdoor boarding, but which may have overnight indoor boarding up to a maximum of three animals at any one time.
Wall, Obscuring. A structure constructed of masonry or brick, of definite height and location, to serve as an obscuring screen in carrying out the requirements of this Zoning Ordinance.
Warehouse. A building used primarily for the storage of goods and materials. [NEW]
Watercourse. Any waterway or other body of water having well defined banks, including rivers, streams, creeks and brooks, whether continually or intermittently flowing, and lakes and ponds. [NEW]
Wetland (State or Federal Regulated). Land characterized by the presence of water at a frequency and duration sufficient to support, and that under normal circumstances does support, wetland vegetation or aquatic life, commonly referred to as a bog, swamp or marsh and which is any of the following:
(a) Contiguous to the Great Lakes or to an inland lake, pond, river or stream.
(b) Not contiguous to the Great Lakes or to an inland lake, pond, river or stream and more than five (5) acres in size.
(c) Not contiguous to the Great Lakes or to an inland lake, pond, river or stream, and more than five (5) acres in size, if the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (MDNR) determines that protection of the area is essential to the preservation of the natural resources of the state from pollution, impairment or destruction and if the MDNR has so notified the owner.
Wireless Communication Facilities. All structures and accessory facilities relating to the use of the radio frequency spectrum for the purpose of transmitting or receiving radio signals shall be Wireless Communication Facilities. This may include, but shall not be limited to, radio towers, television towers, telephone devices and exchanges, microwave relay towers, telephone transmission equipment building, and commercial mobile radio service facilities. Not included within this definition are citizen band radio facilities, short wave facilities, ham, amateur radio facilities, satellite dishes, and governmental facilities which are subject to state or federal law or regulations which preempt municipal regulatory authority. For purposes of this Ordinance, the following additional terms are defined: [MODIFIED]
(a) Attached Wireless Communications Facilities. Wireless communication facilities that are affixed to existing structures, such as existing buildings, towers, water tanks, utility poles, and the like. A wireless communication support structure proposed to be newly established shall not be included within this definition.
(b) Wireless Communication Support Structures. Structures erected or modified to support wireless communication antennas. Support structures within this definition include, but shall not be limited to, monopoles, lattice towers, light poles, wood poles and guyed towers, or other structures which appear to be something other than a mere support structure.
(c) Collocation. The location by two (2) or more wireless communication providers of wireless communication facilities on a common structure, tower, or building, with the view toward reducing the overall number of structures required to support wireless communication antennas within the community.
Yard. An open space of prescribed width or depth on the same land with a building or group of buildings, which open space lies between the building or group of buildings and the nearest lot line and is unoccupied and unobstructed from the ground upward, except as otherwise provided herein.
(a) Yard, Front. The area extending across the full width of the lot and lying between the front line of the lot and the nearest line of the principal building or group of principal buildings, except on corner lots.
(b) Yard, Rear. The area extending across the full width of the lot and lying between the rear lot line and the nearest line of the principal building or group of principal buildings nearest the rear lot line, except on corner lots.
(c) Yard, Side. The area between the side line of the lot and the nearest line of the principal building and extending from the front yard to the rear yard.
(d) Yard, Street Side. The area located between the side street lot line and a line drawn parallel from the nearest point of a principal building or group of principal buildings from the front line of the property to the rear line of the property.
Yard Measurement. In measuring a yard the line of a building shall be deemed to mean a line parallel to the nearest lot line, drawn through the point of the building or the point of a group of buildings nearest to such lot line.
Yard, Required, Front/Side/Rear. An open space of prescribed width or depth adjacent to a lot or property line on the same land with a building or group of buildings, which open space lies in the area between the building or group of buildings and the nearest lot line and is unoccupied and unobstructed from the ground upward, except as otherwise provided herein. [MODIFIED]
Zoning Administrator. The Building Official or his or her designee shall act as the zoning administrator and shall be responsible for administering this Zoning Ordinance.
Zoning Board of Appeals. Means the Zoning Board of Appeals as provided under provisions of the City or Village Zoning Act, being Act 207 of the Public Acts of 1921, as amended, with powers and duties as defined in those statutes, except as modified herein.
Zoning District. A section of the City for which the regulations governing the height, area, use, structure, or size of buildings and premises are the same. [NEW]
Hotel. A building or group of buildings with a common entrance or entrances, containing rooms designed to provide transient lodging for compensation for periods of thirty (30) days or less, and in which one or more of the following services are offered: maid service, furnishing of linen, telephone, secretarial or desk service and bellhop service. A hotel may include a restaurant or cocktail lounge, public banquet hall, ballroom or meeting room. [MODIFIED]
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