Let's vote on the ice arena
Some guy showed up at city council and said they should sell the ice arena.
You hear other people running down the place, complaining that it's not managed or marketed well.
You hear people talking about how the city doesn't have any money.
Why doesn't the city hold a referendum on selling or retaining ownership of the ice arena? Even if it wasn't a binding vote, it would give them some idea of whether it would be a preferable or viable option based on resident sentiments.
You hear other people running down the place, complaining that it's not managed or marketed well.
You hear people talking about how the city doesn't have any money.
Why doesn't the city hold a referendum on selling or retaining ownership of the ice arena? Even if it wasn't a binding vote, it would give them some idea of whether it would be a preferable or viable option based on resident sentiments.
posted by The Observer at 8/22/2007 10:23:00 AM
8 Comments:
Observer,
Why don’t we just make Monroe wireless, give everyone a computer, and have a poll on every issue?
This could be a cost savings of something like 7K x 7 or like 50K per year. Hey – that is billions over the next several millennium.
Elected officials who are paid to represent their constituents and make tough decisions generally represent us as a society. Putting stuff like this on the ballot is giving them an out. Please lets make them do their job.
I am all for either selling the ice rink and getting it on the tax roles or converting it to a use for the community like a new headquarters / barn for the water distribution department. How much does the city owe yet on the bonds? Is it even possible to sell it for what we owe? If so – lets get rid of it now and unburden the budget.
Can someone tell me what Tom Ready/Tim Laitur, or Ryan Solomon ever did to Linda Compora? She sure seems to want to see at least two of them fired immediately. I’m kind of surprised she hasn’t made the motion yet. I’m all for cutting headcount at City Hall, but for her it seems personal to get rid of these individuals.
Wasn’t Ryan Solomon hired under her buddy John because his handpicked City Manager friend Debbie couldn’t do everything she claimed? I guess now that we have a gifted and competent city manager Ryan might be expendable, but he wasn’t he added due to shore up Debbie’s shortcomings? Strange that Linda should hate him so much. I am curious what he did to annoy her. Does he own a camera, perhaps?
Roundybout.
The ice arena seemed like a good idea at the time. Picking on the ice arena as a money sink is politics not money management. It is clear that it is like Munson Park and only caters to the recreation needs of a few persons and those who use Munson are mainly from the townships. Munson does not pay its own way either.
I think neither contributes to the quality of life and both should be sold. This need not require a referendum. Let the Mayor and council decide between maintaining our infrastructure and recreation for the whole county.
Considering what the Convent is getting away with I do not see how anyone can be made to mow grass or weeds. There is spiritual value in weeds and I like to talk to my weeds at night in my dreams—
eleminate the blight enforcer. Put parking meters in the parking lot across from St. Mary’s and collect a dollar to go to mass.
Sell the ice arena to the county for a new jail and throw Munson Park in with the deal. Perhaps we can acquire the back part of the sister’s place as part of a three way trade. It is ideal for low cost condominiums and housing in the $450,000.00 range. I agree with IACO on letting habitat build in Bedford a while. We do not need to be the “Affordable Housing” Location for all of the disadvantaged.
Demolish Greenwood as planned but do not rebuild it. If the occupants can destroy it in less than 40 years why even try. To help the needy and this will reduce our police cost. That place is in the police news every Saturday. Let the disadvantaged live in the many vacant rentals throughout the county. With so much vacant housing why are in the rental business?
Let the Sheriff patrol the city and enforce our laws. We can afford several contracted deputies like Bedford.
I’m not one of the good ol boys but should the observer allow this to go through I thought I would provide some non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs, but in the words of Joe Friday “just the facts ma’am.
Roundybout do people a favor and at least TRY and get small portion of what you state straight because you certainly aren’t up on facts about the City of Monroe.
First, Ryan Solomon was hired by Mayor Al because his hand picked city manager Bob Hamilton, didn’t want to handle complaints by the public. Ryan was hired as an Assistant TO THE City Manager and basically took care of the public because Bob didn’t want to be bothered. Oh yes Ryan also handles the coverage of council meetings and eloquently adjust the microphones before each meeting. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Ryan was given the TITLE of Assistant City Manager by Mayor Al. Remember now Ryan has no formal education or really true experience as an Assistant City Manager, you should recall the Police Chief was made acting City Manager even though Ryan was on staff. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS.
You also maintain Debbie was handpicked by her buddy John, why don’t you approach former council woman Wetsel about this I am sure she will tell you the truth. She was chairperson of the committee composed of Council, Business leaders, labor leaders, and citizens who screened at least a dozen applications for City Manager. This was an innovative approach to hiring a City Manager for the community, something that had never been done before. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
If I recall correctly the top two candidates were invited to Monroe wined and dined and interviewed. Since the process took so long the committees first two choices were unavailable because they secured other employment. Debbie was at least the committees third choice, maybe even fourth.. Lets not forget that even though Wetzel and Burkett voted against the other five voted in favor. The bottom line was Debbie was only handpicked by John in an attempt to secure an INTERM CITY MANAGER and was voted down. In case you are wondering this is a come practice among municipalities’ check the Michigan Municipal League website and you can verify this yourself. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Roundybout once again please try and get your facts correct, taking things out of context and arraigning them to suit your own agenda certainly isn’t flattering. The Operational Assessment recently completed for the City, you can look at a copy yourself on the City website, identifies luxury positions. This type of fluff is what Linda Compora is referring. She only said “Before they start cutting public safety they need to cut the fluff in city hall," Is it personal, don’t know, the consultant were the ones who identified the “luxuries” not Compora. Did she actually mention names or are you subjectively inserting them for her? Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Well now go ahead a fling something witty back, like thanks for the comment John, and Linda, and Rick! Oh My! Just seems like every time someone brings facts to this blog, instead of bs, they get crucified, well to bad, take your best shot. Prove anything I have stated as being untrue, if you can I will be the first to apologize for trashing your good name (tongue in cheek of course), but sincerely I will admit when I am wrong, especially if proven to be. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Just so you know people are getting tired of this type of slanderous behavior so get used to the opposing point of view. Unless of course you get your facts straight and since I don’t see that coming anytime soon we’ll (John, and Linda, and Rick! Oh My!) will brace to counterman the bs you or anyone else chooses to post on this blog. Of course this is provided the observer sees fit to allow this post to happen. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
The Motto, just in case you haven’t figured it out,
Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Just the Facts,
You are a condescending prick.
Just the facts!
My whole paragraph concerning Ryan Solomon contained many symbols that looked remarkably like “?”.
The symbol that looks like “?” is called a question mark. It means that the poster is just asking a question or clarification about a topic. It means that it is not a statement of fact, but seeking clarification. I wanted someone to educate me about the background of how we got an assistant city manager.
Now – you may have done a good job clarifying my questions about who hired Ryan, what his job was, etc, but you did so in a manner that was caustic. I appreciate you filling me in on the history of that position. What you say makes sense, and I can totally see that going down. What I didn’t need was your sarcasm and accusation about my motives. I am just seeking the truth. I am not out to spread incorrect information. Hence, if I have a question I use the “?” symbol and hope someone can fill in the blanks.
Believe it or not I don’t spend all my time in town researching and listening to the gossip. I don’t have the option to take out 15 minutes to learn about what is going on. Apparently you can, and that’s great for you, but I have to depend on the Monroe Evening News and other sources to get my information. That can be tough. Please cut me some slack.
Further – you accused me of having an agenda. I don’t have any agenda. I just want government to be fiscally responsible, fix the infrastructure, and add some improvements if possible. I don’t want the city to be a jobs program that provide great benefits and pensions for little work output. If that is an agenda, then I plead guilty to having an agenda.
Please try to improve your demeanor. Everything doesn’t have to be a fight. I am happy to have you educate me and fill in the blanks, but frankly if you want to continue to be confrontational I don’t really need your input.
Thanks for the consideration!
If you really want to know how much money was spent on Front / Third or researching the roundabout please look at past CIP budgets. If you don’t have those please give Pat Lewis a call. I’m sure he would fill you in. I would consider the funds that were spent there considerable, and a waste of money.
Roundybout.
Roundybout,
Thanks for proving my point, unfortunately it wasn’t witty. But like my old friend always said “I know you are, but what am I” Or even better the classic line “Stupid is as Stupid does” At first I thought maybe, just maybe we could play like adults but maybe some of you here aren’t!
Don’t get your panties in a bunch. What’s the matter wake up on the wrong side of bed or did your skirt have a wrinkle in it when you pulled it out of the dryer?
The whole purpose of the topic the Observer posted was to discuss a referendum regarding the ice rink, you’re the one who went off on a tangent asking “questions”. Who are you trying to kid, trying to camouflage a statement with a “symbol that looked remarkably like a ?” is an old political trick and doesn’t preclude the fact it was a statement. A honest to goodness question would have been seeking information, such as What does Ryan do?, or Why was Ryan hired? You asked the question and then filled in the appropriate blanks with your have baked cockamamie bs. You’re only dissed because somebody plays the game better than you do. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Regarding my demeanor. I can appreciate the fact people are busy and don’t have the time to do their research, that’s why it’s so important to ask questions. I would like to think some of these blogs can serve worthwhile causes but the bottom line is we don’t need to bash people, we need to find out the answers versus perpetuating rumors. It would also be nice if people could check the personality issue at the front door and discuss the issues based on the merits. Unfortunately unlike Alice I am not in Wonderland. I’ll cut you the slack as long as we can agree to stay on target, deal? Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Concerning the agenda issue. Why is it most people always mention IACO and Compora, you never see much about CAPPI, Burkett, or Edwards. CAPPI was in office for 14 years, Burkett for 9 and Edwards for 17, yet the blight of the City is doomed to the IACO administration, why? Granted there was the splash pad issue, but come on lets be realistic here. How many people have done any remodeling on an older home? Have you ever started a bathroom project thinking you were going to install a new sink and stool only to find out the plumbing hidden behind the wall and below the floor was shot. Now your doomed to tearing out the ceramic floor and walls, the corroded galvanized pipe and the cast iron drain line. What started out as a relatively inexpensive project has now taken a huge bite out of your emergency account. That was the same deal with the splash park. Had the infrastructure been in good shape that project would have come in under the budget proposed by the contractor. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
I also get kind of ticked when people think the City is a jobs program. Nobody gave it much thought when most people in the private sector were making big bucks. People never really paid much attention to who was picking up their trash, cleaning their sewers, getting up anytime day or not leaving their families at birthdays, holidays and even weddings to plow the wintry streets, in order to insure they could get to their high paying jobs. Nobody cared who was picking up the indigent who fell down the steps or was beat up by the local punks. Nobody gave it two thoughts to the guys who fought through the bitter cold battling numerous blazes at our once prosperous paper plants, so the life blood of the community would still have a place to work. Now all of a sudden the private sector is experiencing some difficult times, so all of the good people who provided all of those menial task are being supported by a City administered jobs program, give me a break! I agree, our elected officials need to a hard look at what is happening now but don’t label the people who have given many years of service to this community. Those who have worked hard and stuck with the City deserve the benefits they worked for, so don’t try and take that away from them. Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
Without trying to be caustic and after re-reading the responses to this entry I am left with a couple of questions.
Just the Facts you wrote: "I agree, our elected officials need to a hard look at what is happening now but don’t label the people who have given many years of service to this community. Those who have worked hard and stuck with the City deserve the benefits they worked for, so don’t try and take that away from them." I guess I don't understand how you can agree to look at the needs assessment of this City and also demand that nothing can or should be taken from workers as they, "worked for it". Sadly, this City has been overstaffed for sometime. I am sorry that you have never heard this before (yes, people were complaining) but that fact does not change reality. Imagine, how will we pay for the social security benifits of baby boomers in twenty five years? They too "worked for it" did they not? In essence, we will all have to accept less not just today but in the future if we are going to make this work.
Alacjun
Don’t think your caustic by any stretch, in fact I down right enjoy reading your post.
Didn’t mean to imply things don't need to change, but a couple of posters, the one from Mr. Smith especially, brought the city jobs program thing to a head. In one post, you may have read it, Mr. Smith advocates for filing bankruptcy in order to set aside union contracts and pension obligation. I would hope this philosophy is shared by few, but still it was rather troublesome that someone thinks so little of unions or the city’s workers.
Just like Social Security it’s going to take some difficult, thought provoking discussion to truly devise a solution to ameliorate the social security shortfall projected in 2042 or 2052. I truly believe the same has to happen with the City. It’s going to take more than Mr. Brown or the seven elected officials to achieve this goal. Everybody, this includes; elected officials, union officials, department heads, business leaders, and citizen representatives, working together in much the same fashion as the auto industry. This certainly should prove beneficial to all those involved. The problems facing he City shouldn’t be construed simply as a one way street with all give and no take or a plan simply to take. Cooperation could be the most important concept people have at their disposal, so I hope they at least attempt to use it.
I as well don’t wish to be caustic but am curious who determined the City was overstaffed prior to the operational assessment? My research, while not exhaustive, can not find a similar study having been conducted in the past ten years. If you have access to such information I, and probably we, would enjoy it if it were possible to share.
Nice to have heard from you Remember this is non bashing fact, not rumor, not myth, not a biased opinion, not vindictive driven bs. JUST THE FACTS
There you see Mr. Smith I can be as sweet as cherry pie if given the opportunity.
While I do not agree with Mr. Smith's idea of moving toward bankruptcy to quash contracts I do understand the reasoning.
I would think that a better idea would be to have a good, unbiased firm, present a "power point" presentation ala Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" that would present the facts of the Cities finance and what deceleration of State revenue sharing, decline of tax revenue and changing demographics have done to the City. Project this out fifteen years and ask the difficult questions: Can we afford the level of Police, Fire, DPS, Parks and Recreation, Sanitation and so on that we currently have. We must, I think, take away items of public health (Sanitation) and then work from there.
My idea is that no we will not be able to afford a police department of the current level. Ironically, the City, as the County seat, is considered to be, by perception, the "county seat" for illegal drug purchases yet we have (per capita) more police officers than any part of the County. Although trivial, this to me says something. I question the need to have a CALEA certification. I have never liked the idea of "paying" for a certification review that provides little in benefit other than a nice sticker and a mention on a web site (yes, I understand that there is more to it than that but I am being sarcastic, kinda). Any savings in liability insurance cost is minimal and I doubt if it is worth the 13,000.00 plus dollars that this review and membership has cost. Imagine, if it were so beneficial why are more agencies not applying for it?
I also question the long term intelligence of hiring highly skilled and highly paid paramedics within the fire department. I am old enough to remember Bennett, EMTS, Professional Medical and Fire, Medi Star ambulance services. I see no trouble with signing an exclusive contract with a service provider and giving them the rights to operate in our community. This set up is good enough for the County and good enough for most other communities what makes us unique? Yes, it would be wonderful if we could afford to keep this but, clearly, we will not be able to do this in five, ten or fifteen years. My thought is make the difficult decisions now to avoid a continued growth of red ink.
I think that it will be smart to continue to farm out some of the items that DPS does (currently grass cutting is handled, in part, by Jacks Lawn Service) this trend should continue. I think doing this will allow the City to not only get a better bang for out buck but will allow us to have our skilled (and more expensive) employees doing more valuable work instead of grunt work.
I believe that rethinking the funding and necessity of the DDA is overdue. The funds for the DDA, I believe, come from Community Development funds (typically, CDBG) money. These funds could be used more efficiently, I believe, while also not seeing a reduction in services. Consider this, the DDA paid for the flowers and flower maintenance this summer and they looked great. This took a menial task off of DPS and put money into the pockets of the citizens (by employing people) and therefore helped add money to our local economy. I think more opportunities like this exist and need to be explored.
The over-staffing of the City and evidence that exist is anecdotal at best. It is based on several things. One, as a City resident I can "see" the high number of employees that mill about on a daily basis. Secondly, as someone who actively pays attention to politics I (and others) can "tell" the high number of employees and, in some cases, the low level of activities in the performance measures published as part of the Cities annual budget. Please take the time to look at those numbers and reflect on them for a moment. Ask yourself if this would be allowed in the competitive world? Like it or not that is what our City is doing, competing with tax dollars from the surrounding communities. Thirdly, several years ago there was something called a "Rye Study" done for the Counties Union that highlighted wages and trends. That study also gave some insight into how departments operated and one must wonder, reasonably, why (per capita) our City has more employees than the County? I guess this just does not seem to make sense to me.
You know there is a continuing trend toward "lean manufacturing" in the private sector. It would be valuable for municipalities to adopt this and I believe it is imperative if we expect to survive.
But, those are just my thoughts.
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